In a discussion with progressive libs talking about all the virtues of being a democrat supporter and being opposed to fascism and the current state of affairs with ICE and I reply by telling them that the dems have supported ICE at every turn and they have taken every opportunity to increase their funding so how is that leaning away from fascism by their own reasoning? I also said that if a Nazi promised to do 50% less holocaust, would that also qualify as leaning away from fascism (which is incredibly charitable given that the democrats absolutely do not even come close to reducing their support for ICE to 50% of the GOP.)
Someone replies with "they managed to do it with a lot less shooting of people and a lot less assaulting of people unwarranted". (Apparently assaulting people is cool if you have a warrant??)
I tell them exactly what you'd expect. "So you're not opposed to fascism as long as it minimizes shootings and ICE only assaults people when they have a warrant?"
Look at this reply of theirs:
Respect. Proceduralism. Fascism is cool with me if it's a few notches below the current fever-pitch level. Even though the dems have been willing collaborators in walking this path every step of the way, it's pretty silly to both sides the issue (no I will not elaborate). There are only two options: ICE and open borders.
...this is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that progressives are worse to deal with than conservatives. I know that there's this trope about MAGA supporters being brainwashed and it's not untrue but if anyone can explain to me how you can call yourself antifascist and "pretty heavily anti-ICE" while defending the party that increases ICE funding every time they get into power then I'd love to hear it because as far as I can tell if you're acting like ICE has always existed, that it's a necessity, and that you're opposed to ICE while defending it and defending your support of the party that throws its full weight behind ICE then how is that not being so deep in the trashcan of ideology that your roommate is Oscar the Grouch?
In this way they’re just like the chuds. You test their intellectual flexibility and the moment you approach one of their red lines they lock up and the same dogmatic rigidity they associate with “leftist idealism” or “conservative fearmongering” rears its head. (The “extremes” their horseshoe theorizing built for them)
They’re walking around with thought-terminating cliches pressed to their heads like handguns.
Wait, fuck, I think I got a mental image for chud/lib debate: it’s two clowns with guns pointed at themselves threatening the other with taking themselves out and the leftist watches in horror from the side
I don’t know if you or I should feel the need to yell at these clowns but I do feel that they should be yelled at. Like these are distinct yet parallel thoughts in my head. Saying the vibes are fucked is underselling it these days so it’s good to air these things out.
I guess I'm lucky in that I don't feel the need to do it so much as I do it recreationally. It's only when these brainworms encroach on a space that isn't for this that I actually feel the need to act.
Maybe I'm reasoning backwards and maybe it's just me justifying it to myself but I do think that plenty of my political development, especially in the early days, came from people yelling at me lol. I am obstinate though.
These days I try to be a bit purposeful about it and I poison the well by saying things like "when the democrats line up to vote for ICE funding 'with significant concessions from the Trump administration' just remember that moment for the next time an ICE agent murders someone in cold blood and remember that CECOT will remain open because of this." or "You sleepwalking through politics got you to this moment and the minute that the next democrat president is elected you're gonna be so quick to go back to brunch that you won't even notice them increasing ICE funding as the arrest numbers outdo Trump's record and then, when the next republican president comes into power, you're gonna act confused about how things deteriorated so much that you can almost look back on the Trump era with nostalgia."
I doubt they'll actually internalize it but maybe, just maybe, there's gonna be a twinge in their conscience and it will nudge them slightly to the left because some internet stranger accurately predicted exactly what would come to pass.
The only way we will find out their tipping point is if we keep applying pressure. Didn’t Zhou Enlai say that the verdict was still out on whether the French Revolution was successful? Who knows what good yelling at these clowns will be in the grand tally of things but pressure release valves are great. And yeah I know deep down in my bones that somebody should be saying something that isn’t more of what liberals say. If for no-one other than ourselves, it’s nice that their narrative however dominant is not the sole narrative. So keep going.