this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2026
315 points (97.9% liked)
Science Memes
18214 readers
1681 users here now
Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!
A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.
Rules
- Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
- Keep it rooted (on topic).
- No spam.
- Infographics welcome, get schooled.
This is a science community. We use the Dawkins definition of meme.
Research Committee
Other Mander Communities
Science and Research
Biology and Life Sciences
- !abiogenesis@mander.xyz
- !animal-behavior@mander.xyz
- !anthropology@mander.xyz
- !arachnology@mander.xyz
- !balconygardening@slrpnk.net
- !biodiversity@mander.xyz
- !biology@mander.xyz
- !biophysics@mander.xyz
- !botany@mander.xyz
- !ecology@mander.xyz
- !entomology@mander.xyz
- !fermentation@mander.xyz
- !herpetology@mander.xyz
- !houseplants@mander.xyz
- !medicine@mander.xyz
- !microscopy@mander.xyz
- !mycology@mander.xyz
- !nudibranchs@mander.xyz
- !nutrition@mander.xyz
- !palaeoecology@mander.xyz
- !palaeontology@mander.xyz
- !photosynthesis@mander.xyz
- !plantid@mander.xyz
- !plants@mander.xyz
- !reptiles and amphibians@mander.xyz
Physical Sciences
- !astronomy@mander.xyz
- !chemistry@mander.xyz
- !earthscience@mander.xyz
- !geography@mander.xyz
- !geospatial@mander.xyz
- !nuclear@mander.xyz
- !physics@mander.xyz
- !quantum-computing@mander.xyz
- !spectroscopy@mander.xyz
Humanities and Social Sciences
Practical and Applied Sciences
- !exercise-and sports-science@mander.xyz
- !gardening@mander.xyz
- !self sufficiency@mander.xyz
- !soilscience@slrpnk.net
- !terrariums@mander.xyz
- !timelapse@mander.xyz
Memes
Miscellaneous
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Yeah, it seems it is pointless to talk to you about sex determination in humans. That's why I linked to previous threads where many knowledgeable people have already discussed the topic.
"You had to respond?" Most of the time, you just said the same things in slightly different ways over and over again without apparently reading the comments to which you replied. But you also spammed "Why do you care so much?" a dozen times.
I would still be interested in your answer to the question:
What is Imane Khelif’s gender and sex?
I responded "Why do you care so much?" to a user that started out engaging in bad faith by asking that question to start. I was simply mirroring their bad faith argument back to them. Elsewhere in the thread where they had an actual comment, I responded in good faith. I'm not going to waste my time on nonsense.
It's easy to say "it's pointless to talk to you". Other people have said that too, or "I'm just so tired" or "You're boring". I'll gladly talk about Khelif, but first:
Do you understand what sex determination is and how it differs from how sex is defined?
Let's get facts straight first.
They did respond with longer comments later, but you only spammed this (This was @oftenawake@lemmy.dbzer0.com)
You also spammed comments back and forth with Log in | Sign up @davidagain@lemmy.world. Nobody forced you to make those comments.
I'm also not of the opinion that you commented elsewhere in "good faith."
Now what is your answer to the question:
What is Imane Khelif’s gender and sex?
And before you ask again: I have read that you categorize sex determination in humans entirely based on gametes, and that you also binarily categorize the many edge cases/exceptions (you know what one interperation of this meme is about) as "organized around producing a type of gamete". Now please answer the question. I would be interested to read your answer.
If you can acknowledge that it's not me categorizing anything, but that I'm merely relaying how the field of biology defines sex, then sure. I make no claim other than referring to many sources saying exactly that.
The entire thread that started with "Why do you care so much?" was eminently silly and I didn't bother responding with effort, but that user engaged in other subthreads, where I did respond.
The other user is unhinged, to be honest. Like, something is wrong with them. I engaged in good faith a few times, but in the end they refused to acknowledge a basic fact and it wasn't worth engaging with effort.
Now, where's your answer to the questions I asked in my very first comment?
What is Imane Khelif’s gender and sex?
We are now really deep in the comment chain, but you still haven't answered.
Khelif identifies as a woman, and was determined to be male by sex testing. Khelif likely has the same condition as Caster Semenya (5αR2D), which often results in being incorrectly assigned female at birth due to ambiguous genitalia.
Khelif is male due to producing sperm, which is why I wanted to clarify how biologists define sex. It isn't based on chromosomes, testosterone, or anything other than gametes (slightly longer put, the gamete type one's body is organized around producing).
If you want to discuss the accuracy of the sex testing done that's fine too, but for the sake of answering your question I didn't go into that.
So gender is female and sex is male.
Where exactly do you get this informations from? I can't find any reputable reporting about 5αR2D in connection with Imane Khelif. The Wikipedia article about her links to quite a few sources and none of these discuss that.
The introduction has this sentence summarizing three sources:
The 2025 "sex verification testing" of the "World Boxing" would exclude her in many cases as not a woman, where she would be a "biological female" even under your definition (SRY gene, high testostrone etc.), where her body would still be "organized around producing a larger type of gamete".
I'm am positively suprised that we can agree that Imane Khelif is a woman. With my preconceptions, I almost expected you to say that she is a man (sorry about that).
This goes over the 5αR2D claim:
https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/11/20/imane-khelif-medical-records/
Note that it confuses gender and sex, and says that the reports are unverified, but that should be interpreted as "Nobody is willing to go on the record about leaked medical reports" which is a "no duh" because that's a good way to get sued. Here's a screenshot from the source:
There have been several leaks of medical records, and nobody has been willing to go on record saying "these are fake/edited/whatever". The IOC has directly implied it's a DSD case:
That's in addition to the sex tests that were requested by the IBA, but done by an independent accredited lab:
YMMV, but that along with other circumstantial evidence like Khelif avoiding any competitions that now require sex testing, is enough for me to conclude that the leaks are almost certainly correct. I'll gladly go back and edit my past comments if Khelif ever proves otherwise.
Well in this case my milage does indeed vary:
Some leaked Documents hardly prove anything in my opinion and even in your linked snopes article it says:
[assuming the above leak is true]
I can't find any concrete reporting about the IBA test in 2023 (here is the relevant section in the Wikipedia article). Only statements by the IBA itself that she has XY chromosomes (which does not,even if true, necessarily mean that she is male, female XY is possible.)