this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2025
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Anarchism

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After seeing a megathread praising Mao Zedong, an actual mass killer, and a post about a guy saying "99% of westerners are 100000000000% sure they know what happened in 'Tiny Man Square' [...] the reasons for this are complex and involve propaganda [...]," I am genuinely curious what leads people to this belief system. Even if propaganda is involved when it comes to Tiananmen Square, it doesn't change the atrocities that were/are committed everywhere else in China.

I am all for letting people believe what they want but I am lost on why one would deliberately praise any authoritarian system this hard.

Can someone please help me understand why this is such a large and prominent community? How have these ideals garnered such a following outside of China?

EDIT: Thank you to everyone who has responded! This thread has been very insightful :)

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[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 37 points 2 days ago (2 children)

It isn't a stretch, have you studied any leftist theory at all?

The idea that a state is inherently "authoritarian" is an introductory level concept.

The key difference between "tankies" and anarchists is that the former understands you need to change the economic substructure before you can change the super structure and the latter generally thinks what is essentially the opposite.

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 36 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Let us begin with the most popular of Engels’ works, The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State, the sixth edition of which was published in Stuttgart as far back as 1894. We have to translate the quotations from the German originals, as the Russian translations, while very numerous, are for the most part either incomplete or very unsatisfactory.

Summing up his historical analysis, Engels says:

“The state is, therefore, by no means a power forced on society from without; just as little is it ’the reality of the ethical idea’, ’the image and reality of reason’, as Hegel maintains. Rather, it is a product of society at a certain stage of development; it is the admission that this society has become entangled in an insoluble contradiction with itself, that it has split into irreconcilable antagonisms which it is powerless to dispel. But in order that these antagonisms, these classes with conflicting economic interests, might not consume themselves and society in fruitless struggle, it became necessary to have a power, seemingly standing above society, that would alleviate the conflict and keep it within the bounds of ’order’; and this power, arisen out of society but placing itself above it, and alienating itself more and more from it, is the state.” (Pp.177-78, sixth edition)[1]

This expresses with perfect clarity the basic idea of Marxism with regard to the historical role and the meaning of the state. The state is a product and a manifestation of the irreconcilability of class antagonisms. The state arises where, when and insofar as class antagonism objectively cannot be reconciled. And, conversely, the existence of the state proves that the class antagonisms are irreconcilable.

It is on this most important and fundamental point that the distortion of Marxism, proceeding along two main lines, begins.

On the one hand, the bourgeois, and particularly the petty-bourgeois, ideologists, compelled under the weight of indisputable historical facts to admit that the state only exists where there are class antagonisms and a class struggle, “correct” Marx in such a way as to make it appear that the state is an organ for the reconciliation of classes. According to Marx, the state could neither have arisen nor maintained itself had it been possible to reconcile classes. From what the petty-bourgeois and philistine professors and publicists say, with quite frequent and benevolent references to Marx, it appears that the state does reconcile classes. According to Marx, the state is an organ of class rule, an organ for the oppression of one class by another; it is the creation of “order”, which legalizes and perpetuates this oppression by moderating the conflict between classes. In the opinion of the petty-bourgeois politicians, however, order means the reconciliation of classes, and not the oppression of one class by another; to alleviate the conflict means reconciling classes and not depriving the oppressed classes of definite means and methods of struggle to overthrow the oppressors.

Lenin, state and revolution

[–] kami@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 1 day ago (3 children)

The keyword here is "theory".

Adopting one theory as your one and only point of view, like a religion, is nonsensical.

I refrain from being dragged in such limited perspectives on reality, from politics to science. It's always better to doubt of everything, especially about what people believe blindly.

[–] Fossifoo@hexbear.net 7 points 1 day ago

You mean like dialectical reasoning? Gee, I wonder who applied that, especially to material conditions...

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Me when a round earther tries to force their round earth theory on me

[–] kami@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Are you saying you believe the earth is flat? Lol and lmao

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 7 points 23 hours ago

No I'm saying you are the equivalent of a flat earther, rejecting something because the word "theory" was used. You probably don't wash your hands because "germ theory" is an authoritarian rule being forced on you by the ruling class. You probably float into the air because the theory of gravity is a form of bourgeois oppression

[–] chloroken@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Tell me that you have no clue what the word "theory" means without telling me.

Good lord, don't they teach this stuff in highschool?

[–] kami@lemmy.dbzer0.com -2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

What you are thinking of is indoctrination and no, they didn't do that in my highschool.

Instead they taught us about how different theories exist and how each is valid until it is not.

[–] chloroken@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 hours ago

The school you went to should be investigated if it's cranking out weapons-grade morons like you.

[–] Philosoraptor@hexbear.net 12 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I think what chloroken is getting at is "the key word here is 'theory'" sounds like a dismissal in the same vein as "evolution is just a theory." The sense of 'theory' in both "evolutionary theory" and "leftist theory" is the same, and in both cases it's distinct from the colloquial sense. It means "body of conceptual academic work," not "hypothetical belief." In neither case does it imply dogmatism.

"Every state is authoritarian" is a pretty non-controversial claim in leftist political theory of any stripe. Comrade's point was "China is authoritarian" is a non-sequitur from any leftist perspective, because China is a state so of course it is. Anarchist and ML theorists are going to disagree on the implications of that basic observation.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago
[–] kami@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

And is also avoiding to say that China and Russia are basically dictatorships, but with extra steps.

Like, as I said, saying all people are bad would be a way to avoid saying that Nazis are bad, but with extra steps.

It's also similar to far righters when asked if they are antifascists and they answer that they are antifascists and anticommunists.

Just different shapes of delusion.

[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 6 points 19 hours ago

How would you respond if someone criticized Revolutionary Catalonia because marriage/religion/domestic violence still existed inside of it?