this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2025
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they may have emotions, but this doesn't entail that they understand personal mortality.
They understand it the same way we do. Just because we created stories and religion around it doesnt mean we experience it any different. They understand, just like we do, pain is bad and food and water are good. Just because we can write papers about the subject doesnt make the feeling different.
I think you misread "mortality" as "morality"
Not wanting to die/wanting to stay alive is proof animals understand mortality. Its the same impulses that keep humans alive as well.
how do you know what they want?
Because they do what they want. You can see it.
so when they die, it's because they want to die
Now you are being obtuse.
I'm asking for some peer-reviewed paper to support your claim
You won't get one. Where's yours? You didnt bring one proving they dont. Since we both dont really know for sure, we should probably just assume they dont care about dieing, right?
suspend judgement on the claim until there is more evidence.
we can't prove a negative. but you are making the claim that requires that they do understand personal mortality, so it is on you to support that claim
You made the claim that plants 'don't want to be eaten.'
It is on you to support that claim. You can't just turn around and pretend you weren't making your own opinionated claims througut this thread and out the burden of proof on anyone who debates.
plants don't want to be eaten. animals don't want to be eaten. and the reason for both is the same: we don't have proof they understand the concept
You should spend more time trying to comprehend the science of things rather than make the bold statements as if they are true.
Plants have no ability to say whether they want, or don't want to be eaten. They have no ability for adversion. They are blind. They have no neurons, no nervous system, no centralized area to process information. Their 'reactions' to being cut, like the smell of cut grass, are chemical reactions. Not feelings or desires.
Animals, however, have all of this. They are not inherently blind, they have neurons, a nervous system, nociception, a centralized area to process information. Most have amygdala, the ability to process emption, they haveba clear understanding to avoid threats. Why do you think a zebra runs when it sees a lion? Because it thinks it will be cuddled to a nice nap? Given tea?
You are all over the place in various comments cherrypicking between what you want and don't want to argue, and the second you are caught you demand papers proving you are wrong, while you haven't once provided any substantial evidence to back your claims. You keep begging for peer reviewed sources, yet youve provided NONE in any of your responses to anyone.
Good day sir. You don't have the reading comprehension to have a propeet debate with.
all neurological responses are chemical response. you don't know if a plant might experience this like emotions
Thank you for proving you have zero reading comprehension. You are digging your own hole deeper than imagined. Good day child.
two different things
How so? Its the same thing I just said it two ways.
in the 15th century, no one wanted an electric car. does that mean they wanted to stop technological progression?
An electric car is not an emotional state.
I'm explaining that "not wanting" something does not require that you even know of that things existence
if you could point me to the animal cognitive-behaviorist paper that supports this claim, i'd be happy to read it
I think you are making that up
Elephants mourn their dead family members. Is that a bad example?
this is not proof that they understand that they, themselves, might die.
edit: the user who begins responding to me here proffers three studies, none of which actually prove that animals understand that they themselves might die. while they say i haven't read them, its obvious that it is they who have not read them. it is either that, or they are lying, or they are incapable of understanding what these papers say.
there is a lot of abuse from this user, so i don't know if anyone actually wants to go into this thread.
Here ya go. Since you can't research or discover things on your own. Rather you just parade through the comments of this post looking for anyone to show you peer reviewed papers of animals who are studied understanding death.
https://digital.lib.washington.edu/researchworks/items/0d98a4dc-1084-480a-9b66-dc2b994e3636
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6053988/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31713106/
this is not proof crows or elephants understand that they, themselves, might die
it is not evidence at all about the cognitive abilities of turkeys
Thanks for replying in such a time that shows you have not read them. It would take near an hour to glide through the sources sent, you replied in a few minutes, and if done, you would see only two were about crows, one was about elephants, and you provided only a personal opinion in response. No peer review from your side? Shall I post the study of chimpanzees next?
You aren't looking for peer reviewed sources if youre so quick to denounce them. You hold no credibility over the sources sent. Those are from leading experts. Youre a lemmy user. Big difference.
these papers are years-old. I've read them.
they do not consitute proof that any animal understands personal mortality
You've read those word for word, years ago? LMAO yeah 9kay buster. Good luck in your sad sad life.
Edit:
also, your response of the studies are “years old” it is interesting then that they still stand.
That means they’ve survived peer review, replication attempts, and scrutiny. That’s how science works bud, evidence stands until disproven. You didn’t read anything in 60 seconds, and you didn't read it between publish and now. You just don’t like the results.