this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2025
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[–] Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca 109 points 5 days ago (11 children)
[–] Triumph@fedia.io 98 points 5 days ago (6 children)

Came here to say that whoever wrote this is old, like me.

The switch from 10/2 to 9/3 is because of airbags. If you’re doing it the old way, you’re more likely to have the airbag catch your hand and whack you right in the face with it.

[–] zaphodb2002@sh.itjust.works 52 points 5 days ago (5 children)

10 and 2 was always stupid. When I was young I got an opportunity to go to a racing school and that was one of the first things they talked about. If you mime driving a car, do you put your hands at 10 and 2? No, you'll probably do 9 and 3. Better control, less going hand over hand.

Also you should push the steering wheel with your outside hand, not pull it. Smoother input.

[–] Triumph@fedia.io 25 points 5 days ago (4 children)

Aha, hand over hand, now I get to wax poetic about that.

Hand over hand steering was useful up until maybe the mid 1960s. Later, too, but after about 1967, power steering was becoming more the norm. Cars were far more likely to not have power steering. Instead, they employed lower range steering gear boxes and giant trash can lid steering wheels. In order to make a regular old 90 degree turn, you'd have to crank the wheel over way more than you do on a modern car, and the car was heavier, had steel wheels (more mass to move).

They continue to teach it today, because if your car loses power and/or shuts off (ICE cars especially, not impossible with EVs) or the power steering otherwise fails while you're moving, you're really going to want to know how to hand over hand steer. It's much more difficult to steer a car with power steering that's dead/broken than a car that just doesn't have power steering at all. Why they still demand it for drivers' tests on every turn, I don't know. You should be able to demonstrate that you can do it, but hand over hand steering on essentially every car today is more clumsy, as long as everything is working properly.

e:

If you mime driving a car, do you put your hands at 10 and 2? No, you'll probably do 9 and 3.

Only if that's the standard you were taught, and the cars that you learned to drive were ones where that made more sense. I mean, just look where Toonces puts his paws.

[–] errer@lemmy.world 15 points 5 days ago (3 children)

I had a Chevy S10 without power steering and man steering that thing at low speeds was such a bitch (such as when you’re trying to do a three point turn). You get a real workout every time you drive. So grateful power steering is in all cars nowadays.

[–] Triumph@fedia.io 4 points 5 days ago

Yeah ... There was a weird in between time where there were still some small vehicles without p/s, but they were still using similar steering boxes or racks, and the same smaller steering wheel. I'm pretty sure that rack and pinion steering is more difficult without power assist, too, or because a different enough gearing would change the packaging, need too much room, increase design/production/manufacture costs too much - they just went fuck it and removed p/s without changing anything else because "good enough".

I don't remember whether the S10 had rack and pinion or pitman arm style.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Why didn't you fix the power steering? I'm pretty sure they were all built with it.

[–] Mcdolan@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

I'm also pretty sure if your car had power steering but its not working then turning is harder than on a car designed not using power steering. Pretty sure they change up some great ratios.

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[–] jaybone@lemmy.zip 8 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Nothing like a technical discussion of automotive steering history without a reference to Toonces.

[–] Triumph@fedia.io 4 points 5 days ago

If we’re going there, let me tell you about tillers.

[–] SailorFuzz@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

This is the kind of excited spew of hyperfixated knowledge that only those touched by the tism could produce.

[–] Triumph@fedia.io 3 points 5 days ago

My wife is the NT in a house full of NDs, so she has some inkling of what it's like to be us.

[–] snooggums@piefed.world 4 points 5 days ago

Hand over hand is better for ensuring you have a grip that can go either direction if something pulls on your wheels suddenly, like in slippery conditions. It isn't necessary to pull it like climbing the rope in gym class with power steering, but awkward hand positions can lead to loss of control.

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 15 points 5 days ago (1 children)
[–] Grostleton@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Lol you need an assistive device? Just use the palm of your hand, scrub.

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

But that's busy smackin yo mama

[–] frank@sopuli.xyz 5 points 5 days ago

Yup, exactly this.

Coached race cars (and bikes) at tracks for years, and amateur raced for more than a decade.

Try just pushing (not pulling). You have a LOT more range and more comfortable control from 9/3 than 10/2

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[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world 20 points 5 days ago (1 children)
[–] titanicx@lemmy.zip 15 points 5 days ago (1 children)

You're all wrongz left hand 1:00 that's the correct way.

[–] Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca 7 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (7 children)

It’s mainly for better control of the vehicle. At 9 and 3, you can pull the steering wheel straight down to turn.

Source: I teach advanced performance driving.

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[–] Siethron@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I thought the risk was degloving.

[–] Triumph@fedia.io 3 points 5 days ago

Yeah, I can see that, too. Definitely more than one additional injury risk that is easily mitigated by changing hand position habits. Totally makes sense that they changed the way driving is taught.

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[–] iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 11 points 5 days ago (2 children)

*7 and 5

Less arm fatigue and safer with air bags.

[–] snooggums@piefed.world 5 points 5 days ago (2 children)

With better control the airbags won't go off.

9:30 and 2:30 is optimal and hands are to the side for an accident.

[–] Trigger2_2000@sh.itjust.works 23 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I vote for: 2:47:18.987 and 9:51:43.051

Makes you concentrate on driving! /s

[–] MeThisGuy@feddit.nl 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

i too have a digital protractor on my steering wheel

[–] Triumph@fedia.io 3 points 5 days ago

Just buy a racing wheel with hand position marks on it.

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[–] iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 11 points 5 days ago

With better control the airbags won’t go off.

You can have the best control in the world and still get rear-ended, T-boned, or otherwise crashed into by someone else. Defensive driving isn't 100% crash-proof and shit happens, my friend. There's a lot of dumb people on the road.

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[–] Gerudo@lemmy.zip 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Til they updated the standard.

[–] Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca 3 points 5 days ago (2 children)

That is the updated standard.

[–] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 13 points 5 days ago

I thought the updated standard was adjusted for daylight savings time, making it 2100 and 0300.

[–] Sarcasmo220@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 days ago

I got thrown of thinking they meant 'til, but they mean TIL= Today I Learned

[–] Lycist@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago (5 children)

Thought they were teaching 7 and 4 now? Due to airbags I'd heard.

[–] flandish@lemmy.world 22 points 5 days ago (1 children)

just go with 0 and 0 with a knee on the wheel.

[–] Triumph@fedia.io 8 points 5 days ago

Ain't nothing stopping me from eating my burrito.

[–] MeThisGuy@feddit.nl 5 points 5 days ago

7 and 4 isn't even centered

[–] joyjoy@lemmy.zip 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

You also need to keep in mind thumb placement. If you have a vice grip on the steering wheel with your thumb and forefinger wrapping the wheel, you'll get your thumbs ripped off/sprained in a crash.

[–] Triumph@fedia.io 4 points 5 days ago

That's more for mad offroading, because the weight of the vehicle over terrain can lever the front wheels quickly enough to spin the wheel. Not impossible, but far less likely on pavement, even in any crash.

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[–] Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 1 points 4 days ago

Eh, 3 fingertips at 7

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