this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2025
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Image is of destruction and damage inside Israel, sourced from this article.


Iran and Israel have struck each other many times over the last few days. There has been a general focus on military facilities and headquarters by both sides, though Israel has also struck oil facilities, civilian structures and hospitals, and in return for this, Iran has struck major scientific centers and the Haifa oil facilities.

Israel appears to have three main aims. First, to collapse the Iranian state, either through shock and breakdown by killing enough senior officials, or via some sort of internal military coup. Second, to try and destroy Iranian nuclear sites and underground missile cities, or at least to paralyze them long enough to achieve the first and third goals. And third, to bring the US into a direct conflict with Iran. This is because the US better equipped to fight them than Israel is (though victory would still not be guaranteed depending on what Iran chooses to do).

Iranian nuclear facilities are hidden deep underground (800 meters), far beyond the depth range of even the most powerful bunker busters (~70 meters or so), and built such that the visible ground entrances are horizontally far away in an unknown direction from the actual underground chambers. Only an extremely competent full-scale American bombing force all simultaneously using multiple of the most powerful conventional (perhaps even nuclear) bunker busters could even hypothetically hope to breach them (and we have seen how, in practice, American bunker busters have largely failed to impair or deter Ansarallah). There are several analysts on both sides who have concluded that it is entirely impossible to physically prevent Iran from building nukes.

I fully expect the US to join the war. I believe the current ambiguity is a deliberate invention of the US while they work to move their military assets into position, and as soon as they are ready, the US will start bombing Iran. After that, Iran's leadership must - if they haven't already - harden their hearts, and strike back with no fear, or risk following the path of Libya, Syria, and Iraq, either into either surrender, occupation, or annihilation. Every day where they do not possess a nuke is a day where lives are being lost and cities are being bombed.


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Understanding War and the Saker: reactionary sources that have occasional insights on the war.
Alexander Mercouris, who does daily videos on the conflict. While he is a reactionary and surrounds himself with likeminded people, his daily update videos are relatively brainworm-free and good if you don't want to follow Russian telegram channels to get news. He also co-hosts The Duran, which is more explicitly conservative, racist, sexist, transphobic, anti-communist, etc when guests are invited on, but is just about tolerable when it's just the two of them if you want a little more analysis.
Simplicius, who publishes on Substack. Like others, his political analysis should be soundly ignored, but his knowledge of weaponry and military strategy is generally quite good.
On the ground: Patrick Lancaster, an independent and very good journalist reporting in the warzone on the separatists' side.

Unedited videos of Russian/Ukrainian press conferences and speeches.

Pro-Russian Telegram Channels:

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https://t.me/aleksandr_skif ~ DPR's former Defense Minister and Colonel in the DPR's forces. Russian language.
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https://t.me/s/levigodman ~ Does daily update posts.
https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday ~ Patrick Lancaster's telegram channel.
https://t.me/gonzowarr ~ A big Russian commentator.
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Pro-Ukraine Telegram Channels:

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https://discord.gg/projectowl ~ Pro-Ukrainian OSINT Discord.
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[–] SeventyTwoTrillion@hexbear.net 35 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

And even if Israel and the US could just magically bomb Iran's nuclear facilities out of existence, then that merely leaves the status quo, and that status quo is a country with thousands of perfectly good conventional missiles and drones that is firing them at Israel through their air defense and causing major societal and economic disruption. Even compared to Iraq, the propaganda buildup to this war is just so ridiculous on so many levels. It's this fantastical fever dream where there's so many contradictions and "the enemy is strong and weak" claims flying around and ruses and stalling that trying to be informed in this conflict is exceedingly difficult.

In regards to the Fordow thing, I've seen so many different opinions from various people who seem like they have some degree of military knowledge and know what they're talking about generally. Like, here's a list of the claims I've seen:

  • Fordow is 80m underground.
  • Fordow is 100m underground.
  • Fordow is even deeper than that according to people who have actually visited the site.
  • The bunker buster can penetrate 60m of reinforced concrete.
  • The bunker buster can penetrate 3m of reinforced concrete.
  • The bunker buster would have to land on the exact same spot each time to "tunnel" its way down to the facility.
  • Repeated strikes by the bunker buster in the general vicinity could gradually weaken the facility regardless.
  • Even if the bunker buster reached the facility it wouldn't necessary be destroyed.
  • Even if the bunker buster reached the facility it wouldn't matter because Iran has a bunch of other nuclear sites.
  • Actually, the bunker buster doesn't need to reach the facility because it can hit the entrances.
  • Actually, it doesn't really matter if it hits the entrances because those can be cleared relatively quickly.
  • The B2s would have no trouble delivering the bunker busters because Israel has total air domination.
  • Actually, Israel doesn't have total air domination, but the B2s would still reach the facility.
  • Actually, Iran has sufficient air defense to shoot down at least one or two B2s and the Americans have only tested this sort of thing in situations where they have total air superiority so in practice, they would make mistakes or their equipment would have errors and fail.

At this point I'm just waiting for the Americans to try the goddamn bombing run. It'll either work or it won't, but as I said above, while it's obviously not irrelevant if the US can take out Fordow (e.g. it has implications for the Iranian underground missile cities), it in and of itself is just a single aspect of a wider war being currently fought with conventional weapons regardless.