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this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2024
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But someone told me they are sending weapons to Israel for Jewish voters.
It's less about Jewish voters and more about pro-Israel campaign dollars.
Folks just have no clue how powerful the pro-Israel lobby is here. Combined with the zionist Christians it's kind of a nightmare.
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus?ind=Q05
https://apnews.com/article/squad-aipac-progressives-congress-cori-bush-0de0a96929368db72145b033261415ca
And their organization against progressive causes wasn't limited to the national level either, they interfered in LOCAL elections too.
https://www.opb.org/article/2024/06/20/major-pro-israel-group-donation-oregon-3rd-district-congress-primary-dexter-jayapal/
Demographic groups aren't monolithic, for what it's worth. There is definitely a large pro-Israel contingent of Jewish Americans, too. Not that they deserve to be pandered to, but just that no one is able to represent an entire demographic.
Source? That's definitely not true for the younger jews and I think there's more of us now
There source, apparently, is a poll taken of American Jews. And not a poll they understood very well:
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/05/21/u-s-jews-have-widely-differing-views-on-israel/
Along with the fact that most Israeli Jews want the country in which they live to exist, which... duh.
But, you know, America is the only country with Jews outside of Israel.
In fact, are there any countries besides those two?
Don't underestimate the number of Jews in Israel that want a 0 state solution. There are anarchist Israelis. There are antizionist Israelis.
Oh I'm sure there are plenty of Israelis who want that.
But from all I can tell, based on better polling than the person above provided, the majority of Israelis could be described accurately as Zionists.
Their poll was about emotional attachment. You can be "emotionally attached to Israel" because it's where the Western Wall is. It doesn't mean you're a Zionist as OP suggests.
Who elected you to speak on behalf of Jews?
This survey shows a majority of American Jews are Zionists. The percentage of Zionists is much higher among Jews living in Israel. That gives you a solid majority for Zionism among Jews.
Mods won’t like this post and delete it, just like the one you answered to. They might even ban me.
That survey says the opposite of what you think it does. Zionism now is essentially the Jewish version of white supremacy. It's radical. It's dangerous.
But when the survey you link to states quite clearly:
"And most Jewish adults took the position that God “did not literally give” the land of Israel to the Jewish people (42%) or said they do not believe in God or a higher power at all (24%)."
That's not Zionism as currently defined.
Funny how you cite a source that doesn't even contain the word "Zionist", "Zionism", "Zion" anything.
If you actually have a look at the data you can see there's very significant chunks that don't have an issue with BDS, that don't think that Netanyahu is in any way serious about peace. Those are not the frothing-at-the-mouth Kahanites that people on the US left often mean when they say "Zionist". Yitzhak Rabin was a Zionist. Murdered by a Zionist.
It's more complicated than that and may I remind y'all that Hamas specifically targeted Hippie Kibutzim during their attack, the same kind of people who go into the West Bank during olive harvest so that settlers have a harder time shooting Palestinians, which is one of the reasons why the Israeli government doesn't give a rat's arse about the hostages.
The biggest enemies of the Zionist project, currently, is the type of people running the Israeli government. Because if you're out for a place for Jews to call home, to live in peace and prosperity, antagonising the fuck out of everyone is not the way to go about it. Traitors to the movement, the lot of them.
Seriously, we should stop listening to americans, brits and germans on this. The literal rest of the world is feeling nauseous but they are still repeating propaganda while people are being massacred.
Of course this have to do with the rise of ultranationalism. Germany for the germans, make america great again, Brexit. Isreal for the jews.
Let’s embrace Palestinian ultranationalist Islamist blood and soil ideology and demand ethnic cleansing of the Jews back to Europe instead.
what? They are parked in a ghetto. They just want their land back. Are the native americans nazis for wanting self-governance? Were they wrong for wanting scalps white men. No they were not.
Were the Irish in the wrong for the homerule struggle? No of course not. The brits came and stole their land.
Nobody want to deport israelis. White people still live in south africa as far as i know. They sure whine a lot but nobody got deported did they?
It's also not an either/or situation. It's not either the Palestinians have the land or the Israelis have the land.
The land can be shared. So can the government. And that government can be 100% secular.
Throw bibi and biden in jail and then we can talk about it.
I think we can talk about it regardless of where they are. And we should talk about it. And the more people that talk about it, the closer we get to realizing it. It will, of course, take a critical mass of people in Israel to agree, but that's exactly why you keep talking about it.
No. War crimers should be judged before we can talk about peace.
That's ludicrous. You expect me to just shut my mouth about my idea of a peaceful future just because bad things are happening now? Fuck no.
Huh no I expect you to act according to a very simple principle of justice. Bombing hospitals is against international laws and the responsible should pay. Otherwise everything you say is just demonstrative.
Okay, so let's say this war ends, there is no more genocide, Israelis and Palestinians form a single democratic state and become a model of peace for the region- but Netanyahu and Biden are never tried for war crimes.
It sounds like that would not be acceptable to you.
To me it is. To the people on the ground who lost half of their family? No fucking way. You know the slogan right. No justice no peace.
If that's acceptable to you, why can't it be discussed?
Why should this topic be silenced?
Oh come on of course it can be discussed. You can discuss it all you want. It was just a figure of speech.
What I'm saying is that it's just talk. Cheap talks.
Well maybe instead of criticizing random Lemmy users hoping for a better future of such cheap talk, you contact more prominent people and groups and criticize them for it instead.
I would start with the Arab Center in Washington, DC - https://arabcenterdc.org/resource/shifting-the-paradigm-the-one-state-solution-as-a-path-to-peace/
Then there's John Rees, founder of the Stop War Coalition - https://www.counterfire.org/article/palestine-the-only-solution-is-now-the-one-state-solution/
And then, of course, there's the Nelson Mandela Foundation - https://www.nelsonmandela.org/news/entry/the-time-for-action-is-now
MintPress founder and director and Palestinian journalist Mnard Adley discussed it. You'll want to get in touch with her - https://www.kcrw.com/culture/shows/scheer-intelligence/what-about-the-one-state-solution-with-an-equal-vote-for-every-palestinian-and-israeli
Let me know when you're done contacting all of them with what you're criticizing me for and I'll give you more names of people and organizations far more influential than me that you can contact over this.
Cool, thanks <3
Well a lot of german were nazis.
The highest result for the NSDAP in elections was 43%.
Comparing Jews to Nazis is Antisemitic.
Who's talking about jews? I thought Israel was an open society with equal rights for all people.
Anyway they're bombing civilians with white phosphorus. Fuck off. Watch yourself in the mirror real hard.
They were comparing Jews to Germans, not Nazis; they were comparing Zionists to Nazis.
Also antisemtic
No. Comparing Zionists to Nazis is not antisemitic. I am a Jew and not a Zionist. Many Zionists are Christians. Zionist does not equal Jew or vice versa.
They were still the first party. My point is that you cannot equate jews and israel otherwise we can stab the first jew since they support using white phosphorus on civilians
Equating a political entity with an ethnicity is the rationale for collective punishment.
Collective punishment which you obviously support.
America and Israel. The only two countries in the world with Jews.
FACT.
Together they contain more than 80% of Jews.
I see. So based on your "evidence," 60% of the percentage of the 80% of Jews that live in America in that combined 80% total of Israel and the U.S. are "Zionists" (even though that's not what your poll said).
This is what the poll said:
"Somewhat emotionally attached to Israel" is not Zionism by any stretch of the imagination.