227
Alabama executes death-row prisoner with nitrogen gas
(www.theguardian.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 27 Sep 2024
227 points (97.9% liked)
News
23296 readers
928 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
No. Perhaps that they are doing it is horrifying, but the way is very humane. It is literally getting loopy and falling asleep, over a very short time period.
When done correctly, i.e. full immersion with proper removal of CO2, then it is humane. The current technique does not remove CO2 from the mask, meaning the victim chokes to death and knows they are choking the entire time.
So, this is similar to how lethal injection executions were getting botched because all the people who knew how to do it properly refused to on moral and ethical grounds, and the states decided to push ahead anyway?
Pretty much. Also down to money, the proper way requires a full chamber, plus constant monitoring and replacement of all gasses in said chamber -- it can't be done with just a mask or helmet, that means thousands of liters of nitrogen per second to do it properly.
It doesn't mean thousands of litres per second to do it properly. A mask or helmet could be considered a poor tool for the job, though, because they are easier to fight/struggle with, and the person could hurt themselves in the process of that.
You need the normal level of air replacement for any given volume with a human in it, but you need to be using nitrogen as the source of air replacement. If you want to speed the process up, you could do 1x space volume/minute for a couple minutes, then drop it down to a normal rate of replacement.
Choosing a larger volume will not make it painful, but it will make it slower unless you increase the flow. But slower is not bad, per se, except that since it's an execution, faster is possibly more merciful (depending on the person's preference) because the person has less time to sit there and contemplate the fact of their death.
The suicide pods are pretty much the ideal balance of space taken. For an execution, perhaps a small room with a chair, and a somewhat faster nitrogen replacement rate (like, 60 volumes/h for the first two minutes, then 5 volumes/h after that).
Then that's not simply killing him with nitrogen gas. But the better method is:
..that is all. If they're fucking it up, it's on them.
..that is all.
But also, even when completely unconscious, complex living things with a central nervous system (including people) tend to flop when they die.
Maybe read what ACTUALLY happens in stead of regurgitating what WOULD happen under ideal circumstances ffs!
Nah. I know what happens. I've experienced asphyxia.
Have you experienced being murdered by the government in front of an audience? Using a method that's humane if (and ONLY if) you're completely calm and fully cooperative?
The exact circumstances matter.
Yes, precise circumstances matter.
For nitrogen asphyxiation in general, you do not have to be calm and cooperative for it to be painless, any more than you do so to stand in a room or sit in a chair.
As to the specific setup that the government chose, I can't vouch for that.
That's what we're talking about, though! That's the topic!
If I was to go on and on across several comments about how nitrous oxide is pleasant to inhale and then go "I don't know about nitrogen asphyxiation, though" at the end, you'd be very annoyed with me and rightly so!
OK, be annoyed with me then.
What I'm saying is "if the state is going to execute people, then nitrogen asphyxiation is an excellent and humane choice, provided that the state performs the execution properly."
I am not saying anything beyond that. I'm not saying that this specific execution was performed properly. I wouldn't really trust the state to say it was done right, or a reporter to day it was done wrong.
People (and animals) can jerk and twitch when they die. They can gasp and breathe heavily even, sometimes. They are unconscious by that point if asphyxiation is done right. Look into hypoxia, there's a ton of documentation on it, video and otherwise, including direct accounts.
The only thing we can do to make it more humane is a: ensure the method is implemented correctly, and b: provide a choice of methods to the person to be executed.
Of course, that's aside from the question of whether the state is capable of correctly evaluating who should be killed in the first place.
Unless they are pressurizing the space the guy is in, nitrogen will just make you black out, without suffering (other than the human knowledge that you are about to die, but that exists with all methods).
This comment has been reported. After doing more research than I ever wanted to on this topic, I have determined this to not be misinformation.
As to the accuracy of the information, I cannot say, as all the information science has on it is based on accidents. All I can say is there is evidence to say that this comment was made in good faith.
I will not speak on the topic of death sentence.
Since when is 8 minutes of fighting against your restraints and desperately gasping for air "a very short time period?"
Being strangled to death with a piece of rope would take less time than that. A proper chokehold with your bare hands to deny oxygen to the brain would've killed him in about a minute.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
With nitrogen, you are literally be breathing out your oxygen. No, a rope is not faster. No, a rope is not more humane.
Except they're not filtering out the carbon dioxide, so you're suffocating in a mix of your own exhalation plus the nitrogen.
Maybe read the part where the dude struggled for 8 minutes before he finally died.
But that's not a problem with nitrogen asphyxiation, that's stupid human implementation.
And the human implementation is why people have been arguing with you this whole time. Because he wasn't executed using proper asphyxiation like that suicide pod (not that execution in itself is morally acceptable anyways), they just slapped a mask on him that was hooked up to a tank of nitrogen.
Even the people watching it found it traumatic because he struggled and thrashed pretty much the whole time.
Ah. Bad title, then.
This comment has been reported. After doing more research than I ever wanted to on this topic, I have determined this to not be misinformation.
As to the accuracy of the information, I cannot say, as all the information science has on it is based on accidents. All I can say is there is evidence to say that this comment was made in good faith.
I will not speak on the topic of death sentence.