[-] OpenStars@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago

Here's such a conversation with an admin at sh.itjust.works if you are interested: https://sh.itjust.works/comment/12051373, or with the mod of traditional_art@lemmy.ml https://discuss.online/post/12722075/11762479, and ofc there are many more. One conversation at a time, bringing up the logical points, condensing them, helping people know their options, etc.

blocking them is still one click away

Not... entirely, but yes an entire section dedicated to "hardcore tankies" helps!:-) I suppose that helps more for people brought in via Reddit, but not word-of-mouth recommendations, so if I am speaking of the latter then the burden is on me, and upon everyone else doing likewise, to "warn" their irl friends that they recommend to take a look at Lemmy. Which is why I am saying that it would be good to add automated labels. I think we are still waiting for a Lemmy upgrade though, that would allow for those? Or perhaps people are waiting specifically for 0.19.6 when Lemmy.World will upgrade, leading the way.

Lemmy.World naively might seem the most likely to attach a warning label to Lemmy.ml communities, seeing as e.g. they have defederated entirely from Hexbear.net, whereas so many other instances do not even do that much.

Though for myself, the longer this goes on the less faith I have that it will ever be fixed whilst remaining dependent upon the Lemmy.ml + lemmygrad.ml admins & devs to help accomplish the goals of bringing in more mainstream normies from the Western civilization that they so abhor and constantly ridicule. Why should they? They themselves do not want that. It is a harsh truth but we are on their platform, and that's that. We will receive what they deign to offer. Which is why I am trying now to help PieFed thrive, despite how far behind it is, and it would be great to see Sublinks arrive as well.

I feel like we've had this conversation two or three times in the last few weeks

You keep asking questions though... so I kept answering them:-P. I feel like we got some addditional clarity on your only focusing on the top 20 instances.

Little by little, progress is made. This issue is not entirely solvable though, using current methods available to us - e.g. the issue you mentioned that the desires of users to avoid being bullied are at cross-purposes with being able to access particularly the FOSS content such as !firefox@lemmy.ml. I will say that "accessing open source communities" isn't terribly hard - you don't even need an account for that, though indeed lacking one would cut someone off from participating by asking questions, posting, replying, and voting. Which is why something like a "community label" holds such appeal to me, and even more approaches such as PieFed's ability to enact user-initated user-blocking of custom user-specified instances without the need for the approval of an entire admin team and thereby the support of an entire community. It thereby democracizes blocking, making it available to anyone who wants it, which I for one think is awesome!?:-) Though the UI needs some polish, so I will focus on submitting bug reports to help with that.

[-] OpenStars@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago

I covered the federation issues in my other comment.

PieFed allows users to decide their own personal defederations without needing to depend upon an instance admin for that.

Hopefully as the UI gets more developed, people will gravitate more to PieFed, or Sublinks.

If the worst were to happen (another Ernst/Kbin.social situation) then any instance with only a single admin is indeed vulnerable, as is any instance that remains federated with it due to the inevitable spam attacks that will come from it.

Though the issues with federation with lemmy.ml are also important too. See e.g. that recent discussion at https://lemm.ee/post/45248880, where the admins expressed a desire for OP to physically commit suicide, all based on an easily preventable misunderstanding about a situation that happened in a game. Just to underscore how ridiculous what we are talking about is, here is a mini run-down of the facts: one non-existent irl character kissed another non-existent irl character, who had been dating in the game for awhile btw, having reached a "hearts" level of 8 of 10 points so quite an established relationship showing mutual interest, whereupon the 2nd character had just given a bouquet of flowers to the 1st one, who then kissed the 2nd one in a surprised and pleased movement, which the ML admins described as "sexual assault" (mistakenly thinking that that did not happen until reaching 10 of 10 points), banned the OP, oh and in the process also told the OP kill themselves. This sounds like insane ranting on my part I know, but it all actually happened!?!?!?! And it's not even something that we need to hear second-hand stories of, it's all right there in the modlogs preserved for anyone who wants to see directly.

It is because of events such as that - which KEEP HAPPENING - that I have stopped recommending Lemmy to anyone. Though I would love to start recommending PieFed as its UI improves a bit - and I will be helping that process along by submitting loads of bug reports to their team!:-) In the meantime, perhaps the downsides of instances such as lemmy.cafe being run by a single administrator do not seem so bad? After all, lemmy.ml has an entire team of administrators - but that did not stop SagXD from losing their account there, suddenly and without warning. Nor macniel or any of the others that we keep hearing about happening. That is why we are saying that having a single admin is bad right - b/c it is vulnerable to go down without warning? Afaik, I've never heard that lemmy.ml has offered a warning first before smashing the entire instance-wide ban hammer, even against a mod of a community there. Nor, again even for a mod there, do they even so much as tell them that it happened. Or explain what the cryptic modlog messages mean, which look at first glance as if they pertain only to individual communities, leaving people confused and having to figure out on their own what happened?

So anyway which is worse: a community with a single admin, or one with a whole team that is unhinged and somehow even more likely to boot someone, and with a demonstrated pattern of doing exactly that whenever it suits them?

And then ofc hexbear is a whole other thing too - who wants to be actively bullied, like why would that be fun for most of us, especially normies? If someone REALLY wants to be exposed to thus, then okay I won't stop them, but it really does seem to me like it would be helpful to at least offer a WARNING to new users that it is likely to happen. Which afaik lemm.ee does not do. Maybe as you recommend lemm.ee you can attach such a warning?

Possibly something like: "if you want an instance that is connected all servers across the fediverse, such does not exist but the closest seems to be lemm.ee, although be warned that it federates with known multiple instances known to encourage trolling behaviors; otherwise lemmy.cafe seems quite welcoming although it is small and with only a single admin so is less stable than others."

As you say, nothing is perfect. All we can do is try to help manage and perhaps mitigate this absolute shit-storm. Thanks for all your efforts there:-).

[-] OpenStars@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago

No, it's really not - see e.g. https://youtu.be/BFSe5-i1LoU and actually I cannot recommend that entire channel highly enough, it is amazing! It is like a mini college course in the subject, and describes how the Alt-Right movement in America (following patterns used in Russia for years) resorts to many tactics that are low-effort and literally designed to waste the time of the responder.

Imagine you had a PhD, specifically in vaccines, and you were arguing with a 2-year-old who no matter what you said then responded with "nuh-uh", and occasionally threw in zingers at the level of "I know you are but what am I?!"

It is not important to refute the bullshit of people refusing to engage in good faith, and in actual fact it is precisely the opposite: by giving them the opportunity to continue forward you are merely playing into their game.

Maybe you pick your battles I'm not suggesting otherwise, just that in general I find it best to not engage with trolls. I tried that on Reddit, as a mod of two small gaming subs, and I learned my lesson: it was me who was changed, not them. Until I decided to leave Reddit entirely, regardless of whether I came here or not.

And now that I'm here, forewarned is forearmed, and I'm not enjoying having to go through that fight yet again, but it must be done by the only way is forward... towards whatever goal I choose, and for the I choose happiness rather than continually hitting my head against a brick wall:-).

[-] OpenStars@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago

Day 1 users aren't taught who and how to block people. Instead, my personal friends have blocked Lemmy entirely. They are happy with the likes of Reddit, which tbf does have more support for niche issues, as this whole thread is discussing.

It is a difficult problem to entangle: how to compete with Reddit, and what specific steps we could do to help. One way that I was suggesting is to better separate the "I hate the Western world" posts from... you know, the places that said posts are talking about. Bc while it is most definitely possible for someone to curate their personal experience on the Fediverse (especially those who use Arch btw, or at least are okay with popping open and editing a config file somewhere), it would sure be more welcoming to particularly normies if that wasn't mandatory right out of the gate?

[-] OpenStars@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

First, I hope nobody is taking any of this personally. We were talking here about how to reach out to normies, and whatever best way there is to do that.

Second, you misread my comment. It is true that MANY instances are having issues with Lemmy.World. My own comment here said "from StarTrek.website" (to be most clear I mean https://startrek.website/c/tenforward@lemmy.world ), which itself is a different instance than PieFed.social, so I experienced these federation issues multiple times this very week, from two distinct places - i.e. I'm not continuously bringing up the same issue, I'm adding new ones to the pile, to show that it's not just PieFed's fault. And I don't think I mentioned here yet that those issues also affected https://discuss.online/c/tenforward@lemmy.world - after a day or two the latter started to catch up but it was still ~~a day~~ behind lemmy.world. That's 3 instances all struggling to receive that same content, none fully succeeding (at the time).

If anything it's Lemmy.world's "fault" but only in the diagnostic sense of being centrally positioned in this debacle rather than blame being a "responsible" party to have caused it or being able to fix it. Though fortunately, 0.19.6 should help provide a fix for exactly this, and the Lemmy devs are currently doing their due diligence to test it out before deployment to the entire world:-).

And I am far from the only one mentioning such - here's one example and here's another. Also, the issue with my personal post was just a few days ago, so even if these federation issues are intermittent they are still ongoing, and seem like they will continue until such time as Lemmy.world finishes its update process to 0.19.6.

[-] OpenStars@piefed.social 3 points 2 days ago

Tbh, no I don't recall it!? :-P All I got is this oldie...

img

[-] OpenStars@piefed.social 3 points 2 days ago

Just don't get

img

in it!:-)

[-] OpenStars@piefed.social 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Uh you don't mean...

img

[-] OpenStars@piefed.social 3 points 2 days ago

Flavortown?! Somebody try to stop this madman, he's turned evil I tell you!!?

Look, I have proof: Guy has a beard - you KNOW what that means right!?!?

img

Meanwhile in the Delta quadrant...

img

[-] OpenStars@piefed.social 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I mean... true but...

There's only so much Russian outright propaganda I can stomach at one time, so even if it's "less" it's still "too much" at the same time?

https://lemmy.ml/post/21927716 - edit: to be clear I'm not talking about the post, but rather the comments within it.

[-] OpenStars@piefed.social 6 points 2 days ago

But please remember that in order to enjoy such diversity of opinions as you mentioned... we must become intolerant.

To the intolerant. There is no faster way to shut down conversations than to allow bullies to dominate everything within their reach.

So long as conversations can be kept "fun", there will naturally be many more to follow, but when they cross the line, then fun-time is over and the people go home. Unfortunately, modding efforts are in short supply here - not as limiting as content creation, but still a constraining factor.

[-] OpenStars@piefed.social 34 points 3 days ago

Disinformation is very real. Many people think they are doing the right thing... even as they turn you in to the gestapo.

None of us are fully immune, though dayum some are a helluva lot more gullible than others.

view more: ‹ prev next ›

OpenStars

joined 1 week ago