166

Elon Musk’s X can’t invent its own copyright law, judge says (arstechnica.com)

submitted 3 weeks ago by sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al to c/technology@beehaw.org

24 comments fedilink hide all child comments

top 24 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[-] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 71 points 3 weeks ago

The judge found that X Corp's argument exposed a tension between the platform's desire to control user data while also enjoying the safe harbor of Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which allows X to avoid liability for third-party content. If X owned the data, it could perhaps argue it has exclusive rights to control the data, but then it wouldn't have safe harbor.

"X Corp. wants it both ways: to keep its safe harbors yet exercise a copyright owner’s right to exclude, wresting fees from those who wish to extract and copy X users’ content," Alsup wrote.

Seems like a sound judgement. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If Elon Musk wants to own the data, he must also be liable for it.

[-] CaptObvious@literature.cafe 35 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Judge Alsup isn’t wrong. Yet Disney routinely writes its own copyright laws and has Congress pass them. Musk is just trying to cut out the middle step.

[-] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 3 weeks ago

disney isn't inventing laws; congress is passing laws, which is how it's supposed to work.

[-] EldestMalk@reddthat.com 19 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

https://publicintegrity.org/politics/state-politics/copy-paste-legislate/you-elected-them-to-write-new-laws-theyre-letting-corporations-do-it-instead/

https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/bills?cycle=2021&id=D000000128#:~:text=Walt%20Disney%20Co%20spent%20$4345000%20lobbying%20in%202021.%20See%20the%20bills%20it%20lobbied.

[-] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 3 weeks ago

lobbying has been how laws get passed for years; it's how most civil rights got passed.

[-] Kichae@lemmy.ca 19 points 3 weeks ago

Choosing to miss the forest for the trees here, I see. Being pedantic only brings something to the table if someine doesn't know the details you're being a pedant over.

Everybody here knows that legislative bodies pass laws.

[-] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 5 points 3 weeks ago

Do you mind elaborating?

[-] CaptObvious@literature.cafe 10 points 3 weeks ago

https://artrepreneur.com/journal/disney-copyright-enters-public-domain/

[-] Spitzspot@lemmings.world 26 points 3 weeks ago

"Elon Musk's X can't invent"

[-] petrescatraian@libranet.de 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

"Elon Musk can't invent"

[-] BioDriver@beehaw.org 18 points 3 weeks ago

How anyone could support Elon a few years ago baffles me. How anyone can support him today worries me

[-] sepi@piefed.social 10 points 3 weeks ago

elon musk can't invent - prove me wrong

[-] megopie@beehaw.org 10 points 3 weeks ago

The website formally known as twitter runs face first in to the results of chasing another tech hype train built on sound technology being applied way too broadly, and operating in unsustainable and dubiously legal ways.

[-] Hirom@beehaw.org 9 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

What about users' copyright? Would Bright Data have to obtain permission from every user to scrap data while following copyright law?

I guess this wasn't a question raised during this lawsuit.

[-] TehPers@beehaw.org 9 points 3 weeks ago

This is a guess since I'm not a lawyer, but since users license their content to Twitter when posting it, Bright Data might have to prove fair use. I don't think that question has been answered yet in relation to AI model training, but search engines have been doing this for decades for what it's worth, so I don't know.

[-] jarfil@beehaw.org 2 points 3 weeks ago

This seems to have been addressed by the judge:

By attempting to exclude Bright Data from accessing public X posts owned by X users, X also nearly "obliterated" the "fair use" provision of the Copyright Act, "flouting" Congress' intent in passing the law, Alsup wrote.

[-] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 3 points 3 weeks ago

Users already relinquished their copyright rights when they signed the ToS.

[-] TehPers@beehaw.org 6 points 3 weeks ago

Do they give up the copyright, or license it to the website? They still created the content, and I don't have a Twitter account, but after briefly reading the ToS, it says they license it to Twitter (which is pretty standard from the other services I use that I've read the ToS for).

[-] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 2 points 3 weeks ago

Yep, you're right. I oversimplified it.

[-] Hirom@beehaw.org 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

The same ToS which the judge says X cannot enforce because it conflicts with copyright law.

[-] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 2 points 3 weeks ago

The copyright law says that Musk cannot claim copyright while also claiming not to be accountable. That has nothing to do with users waiving their copyright, which has been the standard practice for all forum software since practically forever. It's why prior to GDPR, their was nothing to motivate websites from deleting your posts and even that isn't about copyright, it's about privacy.

[-] jarfil@beehaw.org 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Copyright can only be waived in the US by dedicating the work to the Public Domain. In most other countries, it can only be assigned or licensed to someone.

The "standard practice in all forum software since practically forever", has been to include a very broad use license on the work, without switching the copyright holder, in order to protect the forum owner from liability.

The GDPR is about a very broad take on "privacy", where the rights of "access, modification, and removal" get extended to any "personal information", no matter whether it's "personally identifiable" or not.

Kind of a two birds with one stone situation.