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submitted 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) by LibsEatPoop@hexbear.net to c/askchapo@hexbear.net

Went to a Palestinian solidarity protest/rally with some new folks who’d become radicalised against America/the West over the last six months. They aren’t socialists (yet, I’m working on it) - but they’re good people. So, seeing the genocide and its support by our governments filled them with disgust. We talked about the Nakba, the history of Zionism, and the current apartheid etc.

Now, we come to the protest.

Overall, the atmosphere was incredible. Lots of cool signs, different kinds of people, and, of course the pigs. That’s not the problem.

The problem was the fucking speakers. I swear, at least half of them had to be feds whose entire job was to turn people away from turning up at these events.

Some of them, and I mean this literally, wanted the crowd to chant “we support October 7” and “we stand with Hamas”.

I swear, the way the people I was with turned to look at me.

Not every speaker was like this - most were genuine. They talked of labor solidarity, campus organizing, personal anecdotes. But all of that made these speakers stand out all the more.

The worst part is that when it would happen, the organisers was one of them. So this entire thing was a sham from the start.

I feel so bad. I shouldn’t have just brought people to a random protest I saw and should’ve vetted it first.

Like, seriously. I can’t fucking get over this. Who organizes a protests of people from all walks of life in support of Palestine and wants them to chant we stand with Hamas and let’s do one hundred more October 7s?.

Jesus fucking Christ.

Like, of fucking course Hamas is a natural reaction to apartheid and ethnic cleansing and genocide. And of course Oct 7 is nothing compared to the 200 days that followed since (or the 75 years that preceded it). But come the fuck on.

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[-] FuckyWucky@hexbear.net 28 points 8 months ago

I agree, October 7 is history now and Hamas isn't the issue, Israel's genocide is.

[-] Acute_Engles@hexbear.net 28 points 8 months ago

Like, of fucking course Hamas is a natural reaction to apartheid and ethnic cleansing and genocide. And of course Oct 7 is nothing compared to the 200 days that followed since (or the 75 years that preceded it). But come the fuck on.

I'm a certified dumb guy but it seems like you're more concerned with what your friends think than you are with examining the mental gymnastics you're doing here.

What did your friends say about the chants? Was it just dirty looks?

[-] DEAD_YUCKY@hexbear.net 25 points 8 months ago
[-] EmoThugInMyPhase@hexbear.net 23 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The people here don’t really mention Hamas outside of debunking claims made against them. But they also don’t apologize and condemn anyone because some Zionist cries about it. In your case, it could be feds, but it could also be people who are incoherent in their beliefs

[-] Maoo@hexbear.net 25 points 8 months ago

It is not incoherent to suggest supporting the only non-comprador ruling party of Palestinians in their fight against their oppressors.

What do people here think protests are for? Have any of you ever organized one and set strategic goals for it?

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[-] Zuzak@hexbear.net 22 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Hexbear, I'm torn. On the one hand, yes, everyone even slightly to the left of me is an ultra/fed. But it's also true that everyone even slightly to my right is a useless liberal. Isn't there some sort of middle ground where I can broadly condemn both at the same time, so that I can finally shoo all these people away from my overturned T-34 so I can build communism in peace?

[-] D61@hexbear.net 19 points 8 months ago

An potentially anti war crowd being asked to chant slogans that are pro military action is cringe but there's nothing wrong with being asked to support the local government of the resistance/people being genocided.

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I think that some people have this idea that protests are a kind of negotiation where two forces start at different ends and meet at the middle, and therefore they should make extreme statements that they don't even really mean in order for the ultimate compromise to be closer to what they want. This is how we are taught to think that public opinion is generated. It's also not true, at least not for political movements of thinking people.

[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 25 points 8 months ago

I stand with Hamas and support October 7th

[-] Maoo@hexbear.net 21 points 8 months ago

In a culture drowned in liberal horseshit protests are actually a great place to share correct understandings that disagree with that horseshit.

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[-] JayTwo@hexbear.net 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I stand by it specifically when it comes to protests as part of a larger organizing effort that has demands attached.
You're always gonna clash with hegemony in one form or another. They'll always claim you're being too difficult to work with and will always try to talk you down. So don't initially dilute your original demands to where it's already at the minimum you want because after the tense bargaining phase they'll then be rendered effectively useless.
If you want a $1 raise you ask for $2.
If you want a lower campus police budget you ask for none.
Otherwise you're getting 50¢ and the cop budget stays the same but they just do more desk work and less patrolling to make it look like they scaled back.

Compromising by default is a tactical mistake by assuming the other party is operating in good faith. They're usually not. Because they're usually something like the boss or academic administration. Sometimes both. It's in their best interests to both make you believe they're on your side and also to fuck you.

However that's not this.

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[-] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 16 points 8 months ago
[-] Stoneykins@hexbear.net 15 points 8 months ago

Another struggle session already?

[-] tactical_trans_karen@hexbear.net 15 points 8 months ago

I don't want Hamas to create more death and destruction, but I will not condemn or judge them for doing so, they are functioning as actual liberators. Oct 7 was simply a natural result of nearly a century of treating people like animals - sooner or later you will get bit, sucks to suck. I don't want to see people slaughtered, that sucks, but Israel sewed the wind and reaped the whirlwind in the same way that America deserved 9/11. We civilians will get caught in the crossfire for the misdeeds of our leaders, maybe we could collectively visit some retribution on them?

Also, Hamas is a right wing religious fundamentalist organization, I don't see them taking a good line in the long term. Hopefully once Palestine is liberated, the reactionary elements will be put into check.

[-] SexUnderSocialism@hexbear.net 14 points 8 months ago

It seems we have yet another Israeli-Palestine struggle session that's turning into a shitshow. I'm locking this.

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this post was submitted on 27 Apr 2024
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