this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2023
866 points (96.9% liked)

You Should Know

40215 readers
216 users here now

YSK - for all the things that can make your life easier!

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must begin with YSK.

All posts must begin with YSK. If you're a Mastodon user, then include YSK after @youshouldknow. This is a community to share tips and tricks that will help you improve your life.



Rule 2- Your post body text must include the reason "Why" YSK:

**In your post's text body, you must include the reason "Why" YSK: It’s helpful for readability, and informs readers about the importance of the content. **



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding non-YSK posts.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-YSK posts using the [META] tag on your post title.



Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.

If you harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

If you are a member, sympathizer or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.

For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- The majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.

Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.



Rule 11- Posts must actually be true: Disiniformation, trolling, and being misleading will not be tolerated. Repeated or egregious attempts will earn you a ban. This also applies to filing reports: If you continually file false reports YOU WILL BE BANNED! We can see who reports what, and shenanigans will not be tolerated.

If you file a report, include what specific rule is being violated and how.



Partnered Communities:

You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.

Community Moderation

For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.

Credits

Our icon(masterpiece) was made by @clen15!

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Why YSK: Getting along in a new social environment is easier if you understand the role you've been invited into.


It has been said that "if you're not paying for the service, you're not the customer, you're the product."

It has also been said that "the customer is always right".

Right here and now, you're neither the customer nor the product.

You're a person interacting with a website, alongside a lot of other people.

You're using a service that you aren't being charged for; but that service isn't part of a scheme to profit off of your creativity or interests, either. Rather, you're participating in a social activity, hosted by a group of awesome people.

You've probably interacted with other nonprofit Internet services in the past. Wikipedia is a standard example: it's one of the most popular websites in the world, but it's not operated for profit: the servers are paid-for by a US nonprofit corporation that takes donations, and almost all of the actual work is volunteer. You might have noticed that Wikipedia consistently puts out high-quality information about all sorts of things. It has community drama and disputes, but those problems don't imperil the service itself.

The folks who run public Lemmy instances have invited us to use their stuff. They're not business people trying to make a profit off of your activity, but they're also not business people trying to sell you a thing. This is, so far, a volunteer effort: lots of people pulling together to make this thing happen.

Treat them well. Treat the service well. Do awesome things.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] FartSmarter@lemmy.world 78 points 2 years ago (19 children)

People should also remember that it costs money for these servers to exist. So if you enjoy using it, try to support the service by donating to your instance, contributing to open source projects, spreading the gospel, etc.

[–] lunarshot@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago (14 children)

Couldn’t agree more, we need to continue to attract the kind of people who would really be able to help grow this kind of community, so if you have friends you think would like this, try talking to them.

Drop a couple bucks into support the admins and servers - think about streaming services you pay for and use less. $5-10/month to donate to a service you are using daily is pretty cheap considering.

[–] jennwiththesea@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

I see a lot of people willing to support the servers, but little conversation on how to support the admins. I support a living (and competitive) wage for folks, and don't think instance admins should be doing this work for free. If you set up your own tiny instance for your family, sure, I bet you won't be charging your family for it, but a huge instance with constant needs and a bunch of strangers is a totally different thing. Just donating toward server costs does not allow admins to pay their personal bills, while they put in hours of work to keep this place going. So, I appreciate you for including "admins" in the support needs!

load more comments (13 replies)
[–] SomeoneElse@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I’m dirt poor but I’ve donated to Wikipedia at least three times now. I use that website so often, it’s changed my life.

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (17 replies)
[–] AnObscureTenet@lemmy.world 34 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Nope. You're the USER. A concept that is as old as computing and yet has gone completely by the wayside recently with the corporate monopolization of the internet.

Good to see it making a comeback.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] magnetosphere@lemmy.world 34 points 2 years ago

Mostly what I feel is gratitude. Personally, I don’t have the skills, technical knowledge, or free time required to run even a small instance. I know I’m relying on the generosity of others, which makes me much more tolerant of delays, glitches, etc.

[–] mx3m@lemmy.world 33 points 2 years ago (2 children)

“If you’re not paying for the service, you’re not the customer, you’re the product.”

I see this everywhere, it’s the logical fallacy equivalent of “everything that’s rare has value”.

I’m sure most people, on the top of their head, can think of at least 3 products that are free to use and aren’t engineered to leverage their private information (Wikipedia anyone?)

What is true though, is that if you’re not paying for the product or service, SOMEBODY ELSE definitely is. So the question is: “who is paying for me? And why are they paying for me? What is at stake for them?”

[–] lorcster123@lemmy.world 20 points 2 years ago

I've donated to wikipedia before because I feel its valuable to me for all the information it gives.

I might donate to lemmy if i feel its valuable to me for information or discussions

[–] KairuByte@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

I think the part that’s missing is that this advice is related to companies, not in general. If the company is making a profit, and not asking you to pay, where is the money coming from?

[–] AeonFelis@lemmy.world 28 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This is open source. We are neither products nor customers - we are all test subjects.

[–] GingerKun@vlemmy.net 15 points 2 years ago (2 children)

That's a little reductive... Lemmy Admins are users as well. And any bug reports or feedback you provide is implemented to improve Lemmy, which we all benefit from.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Ephrite@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago (2 children)
[–] Dr_Fetus_Jackson@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

"Do things awesome"

BEANS

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] fenwickrysen@lemmy.world 20 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

People always forget the last part of the quote: "The customer is always right in matters of taste."

;-)

[–] iamr00t@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

I like this but I cannot find a reputable source to back this quote. Do you have one by any chance?

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] SGG@lemmy.world 17 points 2 years ago (3 children)

While I agree and love the idea, it's going to be very difficult to keep things this way. Main two reasons are:

  • It costs money to run a service like this as it expands.
  • The temptation of the money to be gained from gathering data can be very hard to resist.

I'm honestly fully ready to see ads sprinkled throughout Lemmy instances (but the problem with that is that due to the federated nature, you can place load on one server through the API's without getting ads).

We've also already seen Beehaw defederate from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works due to the sheer volume of users creating issues around moderation (and probably server load as well) https://beehaw.org/post/567170. If that becomes a semi-constant issue I can see people leaving Lemmy, or at least not being as active as they would otherwise have been.

For now I'm enjoying things, finding it a bit "slow" but that's been a bit welcome, no more threads with thousands of comments drowning everyone out.

[–] meldroc@sh.itjust.works 15 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If things get big enough that hobbyist instance owners are getting overwhelmed, it might be a good idea to organize a nonprofit, under the NPR business model. Not collecting data or breaking your brain with advertisements, though periodically, they're gonna have to go hat in hand, and beg users to feed their Patreon. Hey, I'm more than happy to throw a little in!

Nice thing about this business model is that being a nonprofit, the point of its existence is to fulfill its mission (to help independent distributed social media thrive), instead of to make money for owners/shareholders.

[–] McMillan@lemmy.fmhy.ml 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

the point of its existence is to fulfill its mission (to help independent distributed social media thrive)

I read that as "disturbed" and for some reason the sentence still made sense to me...

[–] Firefly7@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The true mission of Lemmy is to comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable :)

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] fubo@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago

The temptation of the money to be gained from gathering data can be very hard to resist.

There is no money to be gained from "gathering data" here. All the data is already public, which means that Google, Microsoft, OpenAI, etc. are already free to copy whatever they would like. That's part of being on the open Web.

[–] flashmedallion@lemmy.nz 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

We've also already seen Beehaw defederate from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works due to the sheer volume of users creating issues around moderation

Troubling but understandable. Beehaw is basically fediverse tumblr, they need to prioritise their own safety.

It really highlights the other main issue though in that people really want a new alternative to work so are obsessed with growth at all costs. But maximising the influx of new users is going to have negative effects on quality, culture, and community.

A bit of friction to onboarding, and a slow steady growth that allows a community to form is what's going to set this up for success

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 16 points 2 years ago (5 children)

This post missed the most important part people should know: someone is footing the bill for you to use this service. If you're not paying, they will make their money in whatever what they choose. Potential resulting in you becoming the product. Yes, even on lemmy. So if your instance mod needs funding, kick em a few bucks, be their customer.

[–] overzeetop@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (4 children)

kick em a few bucks, be their customer.

Better yet, be their partner.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Dazza@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

One of my favourite things about early days Reddit was it’s growing community of positivity. There was actual encouragement to be nice to each other and subreddits were built around celebrating stuff.

Negativity was downvoted into oblivion so you never saw that stuff on the All page and popular pages.

I’m seeing the same thing with Lemmy right now and hope it continues long into the future. The lack of profiteering should really help with this.

[–] stardustsystem@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

It's the kind of thing that's easy to start and hard to continue. Time will tell, but I hope we can develop the kind of community values here that will grow with scale, rather than shrink

[–] damnYouSun@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It has also been said that “the customer is always right”.

That's not really the saying, it's what everyone thinks the saying is, especially Karen's, but it isn't.

The saying is "the customer is always right, about the price". I.e. that value of a product is equal to what people are prepared to pay for the product, not what you'd like them to pay, as a business owner.

It has nothing to do with businesses have to appease customers, regardless of whether they're being ridiculous or sensible.

[–] 0xff@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

I remember seeing "the customer is always right in matters of taste" on Reddit many times, but I can't find any real sources now. Maybe that was just an artifact of the echo chamber.

[–] stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

We’re all guests in an apartment building with an open door policy in a village of apartment buildings.

Help out your building owners with the utility costs if ya can, design some cool apartments for others to experience and visit, but most importantly: take care of your neighbors and commune with each other to grow a stronger community

[–] vibe@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I honestly think more instances should support some sort of donation or explicit customer model. Running such things is expensive, and sourcing money when things are ran for free is hard, so these kinds of platforms tend to be ran out of pocket, which makes them somewhat volatile. We don’t need to repeat the mistakes of big platforms and instead should build something sustainable from the get go.

[–] wit@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago

I think lemmy should do what Lichess.org does, which is: Give an icon to donators/patrons. That is all, just an icon. It is surprisingly effective. For example, see this: https://lichess.org/@/thibault. The wing, before his username is the icon to which I am referring.

[–] teuast@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (7 children)

I bet if we stole the idea of reddit gold and allowed people to award comments and posts, but 1. no premium membership and 2. make it clear that the money is going to help keep the service running, that would bring in a lot of revenue without harming the community.

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] c0c0c0@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

We are guests.

[–] Ataraxia@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (3 children)

It's like hanging out at a friend's house. Follow their rules.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] mcepl@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Actually, this is not necessarily true. Because it is open source doesn't mean it cannot be commercial. I can happily imagine that with the future rise of spam, porn, and other nasties, I would happily pay small amount of money for well moderated, clean experience.

[–] SpaceAape@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I couldn't happily imagine such a future personally. Thankfully its possible to block instances without having to pay for the privilege.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] quazar@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (8 children)

To quote the first words of the old Dune movie:

"A beginning is a very delicate time."

What we should all take responsibility for is the health and quality of the community. We should be more active citizens, instead of the passive "consumers" we've all been corporately groomed to be.

I think more instances are the answer because this activity can't be cheap. maybe Lemmy.world splits off into 2 or 4 instances. Lemmy1.world etc

This dynamic will have to stabilize in costs. I don't know what that looks like.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] hex_m_hell@slrpnk.net 6 points 2 years ago

If you're not paying for it, directly or through donations, you are the product. If you're not paying for it via donations, someone else is paying for you. Nothing really changes.

Put another way, this is a commons. You share the job of maintaining the commons, or you recognize that someone else is supporting you and you pay it forward when you can. Nothing is free, and we can lose these spaces if we don't take care of them.

[–] NewBrainWhoThis@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Lets see what the future brings. As long as the user count is low there isn't much of a problem, but if instances suddenly have millions of users, it will get expensive for admins to run the service. If too few people donate (what is usually the case), admins are forced to search for other ways to finance the infrastructure. The other point is AI, wheter you like it or not, if Lemmy is big enough, the content (conversations etc.) will be used to train LLMs. Also, the content will certainly be interesting for advertisers to learn user preferences. The difficulty comes with scale.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Smokeless7048@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

There's a reason I've decided to contribute to whatever "primary" Lemmy server I end on.

Infrastructure costs money, and so does the admins time.

load more comments
view more: next ›