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Crunchyroll (lemy.lol)
submitted 3 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 373 points 3 weeks ago

If buying isn't ownership then pirating isn't stealing

[-] [email protected] 131 points 3 weeks ago

Oh but it's not buying! The big "Buy" or "Purchase" button might have said so, but if you'd have careful read through 35 pages of user agreements, you'd see that you only rent the license to stream it.

Which obviously is total bullshit and the whole fucking system should be burned to the ground.

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[-] [email protected] 56 points 3 weeks ago

Pirating isn't stealing either way.

Also, copyright infringement never even used to ever be a crime, although now there is a form of criminal copyright infringement, if it's done for money or if the value is above a certain amount. Thanks to lobbying from wealthy industries. Most copyright infringement still is not a crime, though.

The reason industries lobby for harsher copyright laws is because they know they can make more money if people can't pirate. They take the piss with their pricing, but they're acutely aware that if they take the piss too much then people will turn to piracy. By prohibiting piracy and levying harsh penalties they can get away with even more unfair pricing, and maybe even profit from piracy through punitive damages (which is mainly a US thing, most sensible nations only allow you to sue for actual damages).

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[-] [email protected] 39 points 3 weeks ago

Licensing isn't ownership, and pirating isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement.

[-] [email protected] 79 points 3 weeks ago

The previous comment is more like shorthand, rather than literal truth.

It's faster to say piracy isn't stealing if purchasing isn't ownership than it is to say "if a company can simply reverse a permanent access license at any time then pirating media from them is perfectly ethical and should not be considered a crime"

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[-] [email protected] 28 points 3 weeks ago

Infringe me harder daddy ©👄©

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[-] [email protected] 313 points 3 weeks ago

A clarification that really only makes this worse: Crunchyroll did not acquire Funimation. Funimation acquired Crunchyroll, and decided to use the Crunchyroll name instead. They have had every opportunity since the merger to support people's purchases, but have chosen not to.

[-] [email protected] 154 points 3 weeks ago

Tired of honoring your contracts? Simply purchase a different company and hide behind their name.

[-] [email protected] 57 points 3 weeks ago

Or in the case of Comcast or Facebook, just rebrand without having to buy another company.

[-] [email protected] 31 points 3 weeks ago

Or if you're Google, create another company under a different name, split yourself up, then buy everything under that new umbrella (Alphabet). That'll keep the antitrust enforcers at bay...

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[-] [email protected] 38 points 3 weeks ago

This is incorrect. It was a merger. Sony owns both Crunchyroll and Funimation. That being said, the servers didn't magically disappear. Media could 1000% have been consolidated.

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[-] [email protected] 134 points 3 weeks ago

This announcement is full of weasely language.

"We understand that you may have concerns about your digital copies from Funimation."

The problem is your concerns. We are being understanding about your problem.

"Please note that Crunchyroll does not currently support Funimation Digital copies, which means that access to previously available digital copies will not be supported."

Crunchyroll does not support this, which means that it will not be supported. Your role here is to note this.

"We appreciate your understanding..."

We are being appreciative. Your are being understanding. That's the way it is, got it?

[-] [email protected] 38 points 3 weeks ago

"We appreciate your patience" has always rubbed me the wrong way too. How dare you assume? I'm a very impatient man, and i know you [x company] appreciate nothing of real value

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[-] [email protected] 114 points 3 weeks ago

I still feel like it should be illegal for the button to say "Buy" or "Purchase" when you're actually leasing the item.

There should be a nice, big, summarized disclaimer right above the button explaining what exactly you are purchasing. I'm sure the 100 page EULA explains but nobody has time to read through the whole thing every time they make a digital purchase.

[-] [email protected] 31 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah, but that requires lawmakers to first not take money from these same companies who are implementing these practices.

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[-] [email protected] 104 points 3 weeks ago

Fuck buying physical media, pirate digital media. It's better for the environment and your wallet.

[-] [email protected] 59 points 3 weeks ago

you can also steal physical media from Walmart, copy it all to a hard drive, melt down and cast the plastic into dildos and buttplugs for your own enjoyment.

[-] [email protected] 48 points 3 weeks ago

Did you just tell us to go fuck ourselves?

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[-] [email protected] 93 points 3 weeks ago

if you can take something I own from me without compensating me, I can take something you own from you without compensating you. piracy is a moral imperative in order to preserve art.

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[-] [email protected] 87 points 3 weeks ago

Feel bad for Abe. I had a same conversation with Garmin; it turns out when you buy lifetime maps it means for the duration we decide to support the product, which can have the lifetime of a mayfly and there is nothing they will do, and nothing you can do except not buy another Garmin product.

[-] [email protected] 52 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I did a quick google, you can torrent updates for free for at least some garmin products. Given you paid for lifetime map updates, I'd argue it's not even illegal.

[-] [email protected] 44 points 3 weeks ago

It's such a bullshit argument. Imagine buying a Snap-On wrench because of the lifetime warranty, and they told you, "Oh no no no no, we meant the lifetime of the wrench."

[-] [email protected] 38 points 3 weeks ago

I still have and use all my old Craftsman tools from the 90s. One of my 1/4 ratchets broke and since it's a made in the USA tool, I figured I would look for parts online and try to repair it. Unfortunately the parts cost more than the wrench on ebay, so I decided to take it to Lowes (who now distributes Craftsman tools) to see if they would honor the lifetime warranty. They had no qualms about honoring the warranty and replaced it with the current model, knowing full well the tool was 30 years old. The new ratchet is more ergonomic, has a finer tooth count and not nearly as sloppy as the old one. So shout out to Stanley and Lowes for doing the right thing.

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[-] [email protected] 79 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

They should be liable to refund the license if they can't maintain access.

Bunch of thieves.

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[-] [email protected] 76 points 3 weeks ago

How is it legal that you can purchase a company, without also acquiring their liabilities and obligations?

[-] [email protected] 43 points 3 weeks ago

Likely because the original company had terms similar to others where digital content "ownership" is only an "ongoing license/subscription to access" which they can revoke (which is the real issue with any sort of online digital media)

[-] [email protected] 26 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Funimation bought Crunchyroll, then moved everything to the Crunchyroll name.

"Crunchyroll" isn't the one doing this...it's funimation. Which, arguably, only make it worse. If funamation wanted to it would be easy....they don't want to honour those purchases.

Edit: I just found out technically Sony is the one that bought Crunchyroll and is technically "merging" them. So again, would be 100% possible if ~~funimation~~ sony wanted to.

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[-] [email protected] 74 points 3 weeks ago

Remember kids, piracy is not only moral, but a moral obligation in this capitalist hellscape! (and not theft by definition, and should not be illegal) Torrents are one of the few effective weapons against corporations

[-] [email protected] 26 points 3 weeks ago

Without piracy, many things would be lost. I'm not going to pretend piracy is purely altruistic, but it certainly has benefits for society.

[-] [email protected] 69 points 3 weeks ago

Why tf are we paying full price for long term rentals??

[-] [email protected] 51 points 3 weeks ago

"Why is piracy on the increase?!"

-media corporations

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[-] [email protected] 46 points 3 weeks ago

Honestly kind of bold of them, given that anime watchers tend to be extremely familiar with piracy and it was only the efforts of Crunchyroll and other easy to use services that finally managed to make legal anime a reasonable option. They aren't so entrenched that people won't go right back to pirating again.

[-] [email protected] 43 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I don't see the problem. You bought the product, you're allowed to download it in perpetuity, even if it's from a torrent site.

Hell, the law is on my side. Depending on where you live, there are laws which allow you to make copies of media you own for personal use.

You can use a VCR to record broadcast TV, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to make a copy of stuff that's available on streaming sites, etc. Especially if you bought it.

[-] [email protected] 32 points 3 weeks ago

Fair use does allow you to back up your stuff. That's why you can rip CDs in the US. Nbd. They tried to make it stop, but it didn't. And I buy CDs specifically to rip the lossless audio off of them. You can also rip DVDs legally.

But Blu-Ray gets a little muddy. It's not the content that's the problem, but the DRM. You're allowed to back up the content, but it's technically illegal to defeat the DRM in order to access said content.

Hasn't stopped me. I don't make my MKVs available on the Internet. I acquire copies of my movies legitimately. What I do with the discs when I get home is honestly nobody's business.

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[-] [email protected] 41 points 3 weeks ago

Serious question. Has there ever been a lawsuit, like individual or tort, that has gone after companies for this behavior? If so, what countries?

[-] [email protected] 39 points 3 weeks ago

This is why you pirate, not why you buy physical media.

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[-] [email protected] 37 points 3 weeks ago

Excuse me while I continue to enjoy the salty sea air, practice my vocal projection for shanties, and peruse then collection of different national flags aboard to make sure they are convincing and not in need of mending.

Hilarious how CrunchyRoll actually did the 'live long enough to become the villain' thing.

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[-] [email protected] 37 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

This is simply false. The "quote" here fully omits a sentence without using a bracketed ellipsis, so you can't tell you're being deceived. The omitted sentence makes it clear that the claim made in the post about purchased digital copies is false; the thing we are discussing is not purchased digital copies. Full post from Crunchyroll; I will add emphasis to the sentence omitted by Mr. Goldfarb.

We understand that you may have concerns about your digital copies from Funimation. These Digital copies available on Funimation were a digital access to the content available on the DVDs or Blu-rays purchased.

Please note that Crunchyroll does not currently support Funimation Digital copies, which means that access to previously available digital copies will not be supported. However, we are continuously working to enhance our content offerings and provide you with an exceptional anime streaming experience. We appreciate your understanding and encourage you to explore the extensive anime library available on Crunchyroll.

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[-] [email protected] 37 points 3 weeks ago

There's a bit of misunderstanding here. You didn't buy digital content on Funimation. You purchased the physical copies (DVD/BluRay) and also got access to it digitally on your account, sort of like a bonus. I do understand the frustration since Funimation said you'll have access to it forever online. I don't know what to say if people bought it solely for the digital convenience. But you still have access to the physical media.

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[-] [email protected] 35 points 3 weeks ago

I literally save a copy of digital content I "buy", cause "buying" obviously means "you can have the product for a bit, if we feel like it"

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[-] [email protected] 32 points 3 weeks ago

Sounds like a lawsuit to me.

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[-] [email protected] 32 points 3 weeks ago

It's always ethical to pirate from big corporations and situations like this just prove this point.

[-] [email protected] 26 points 3 weeks ago

It's always ethical to pirate when an intellectual property is owned by someone other than the creator.

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[-] [email protected] 29 points 3 weeks ago

I don't hate physical nor digital media. I don't hate streaming or services which provide access to streamed content.

I hate shitty business people. Those who think that paying once for something isn't good enough.

This is exactly that. You paid for the media. You should continue to have uninterrupted access to that content.

The whole idea of ownership is getting muddied by all this "pay for access" and "pay for license" nonsense. It's one thing of you're paying to use a service and that service licenses things. Sure. Like Netflix licensing access to a show. End users of Netflix don't need to buy the show again from Netflix, they are paying for access to the platform and can use the Netflix license to watch the show. You're paying for a service, that service has content that's licensed, you're not paying for the content.

My problem is that licenses are not ownership of the thing that they license. They're not supposed to be. Even back in the days of DVD, movies had a small section of the package that was a "proof of purchase" (usually a small tearaway section inside the case) which physically represented the license for that copy of that media. You had a physical copy and a license all in one. You can have a license and no copy of the licensed content, and you can have licensed content without a license, most notably in the case of downloading a program or something and having that program but needing to activate it with a license before it works.

In the past licenses were often included with or implied by ownership of a thing. You bought a record, and having the record itself implied that you had a license to own that copy of the content on that record. Over time, especially with digital content, the concept of license ownership and licensed content have been decoupled. Having a copy of... Say, Windows, does not and should not imply you have a license to use the windows operating system. This is the same idea as applied to online media. All of those people have a license to the content, but no access to the licensed content now. Get fucked I guess.

I think it's foolish to buy a license for a thing, and not keep a copy of that thing. While I think that's foolish, it's exactly what I do all the time with games in my steam library. The only reason I trust steam with it is because of their long history and track record. I have licenses to a bunch of games, they have the games on their servers and I can download those games and license them through steam in an entirely seamless process. It's not the smartest choice but it's a decision I made long ago that I've stuck to. Bluntly, I won't buy games on other platforms because I don't want to risk losing access to the content that I paid for the license to use. So I avoid epic Games and other online games libraries for that reason (though, shout out to gog, mainly for giving me the ability to transfer my license to steam when I buy something).

The biggest issue I see is that media doesn't have a universal license authorization method. With software and games, there are license keys. You get a set of seemingly random numbers (and sometimes letters too) which are a valid license for that content. It's transferrable. With media, no such system exists, and licenses granted by a company usually are not transferable in part due to having no system to validate the license with the new service. You bought it, you have a license with x company for it, but y company doesn't even know what you're talking about, and won't accept or otherwise recognise the license from company x for the media, and grant you the access you paid for to that media.

Because of this, I've been extremely hesitant to buy any digital media. I'll get services from a streaming service like Apple music, YouTube music, Spotify, etc for my listening, or YouTube, Netflix, Disney+, HBO+, etc for access to their licensed content that they have licenses for, but I hesitate to buy any non-physical media otherwise. If I'm relying on an online service to maintain my license and deliver the licensed content to me, I'm pretty much not going to do it unless I'm very desperate to access that content (which is rare, of its ever happened at all).

Until we can get a valid license transfer system from the media conglomerates, I'm just going to stick to physical media, or get it in a way that I don't have to worry about licensing. I have a source online for buying and downloading music. An online music store, if you will. What it does is allow me to buy albums and download them. No streaming, no muss, no fuss. Pick your format, download, transaction complete. Enjoy. I chose this because they offered the content in flac, frequently better than CD quality (I'm usually looking for studio quality, 16/24 bit, 48khz or better). Once I have the files and my receipt, everything is done. I legally have the content and the receipt is archived in my email as my proof that I purchased it and hold a license to have the media.

I'm not aware of anything similar for video media, and I stopped looking for one. I will buy the physical media for now.

There's no way I'm going to hand over my money to any company for any licensed content that I can't have a copy of.

All that being said, these corporate types are dicks. They've taken people's trust in them to maintain their license and access to the licensed content, and wiped their ass with it. They don't deserve your money, and they certainly don't deserve your trust. Boycott them until a crunchyroll competitor emerges.

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[-] [email protected] 29 points 3 weeks ago

I bought the fallout 4dlc when it was new. I went back to try and play recently and my dlc is gone and says I need to purchase it. My save files don't work cause they need the dlc so clearly I had it.

But it was years ago, I lost or deleted the email. I called up psn support and since all records of me having bought the dlc are gone on their end, they won't refund or give me the dlc back.

They literally swiped my purchase away and are asking me for a receipt to prove I bought it, 8 fucking years ago. At least with physical media, the studio doesn't walk into my apartment and steal my hard copies

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this post was submitted on 08 Feb 2024
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