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[-] Boinkage@lemmy.world 98 points 9 months ago

No. It is equal to "if not B, then not A." You're welcome for doing your logic 101 homework for you.

[-] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 31 points 9 months ago

First thing I thought lmao. Somebody is taking logic

[-] monotremata@kbin.social 4 points 9 months ago

Honestly what the homework is probably looking for is that it's equivalent to "B or not A." But yeah.

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[-] Ragdoll_X@lemmy.world 48 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

An example of why this is incorrrect.

If a card is the ace of spades, it is black.

A card is black if and only if it is the ace of spades.

There are other conditions under which B (a card is black) can happen, so the second statement is not true.

A conclusion that would be correct is "If a card is not black, it is not the ace of spades.". The condition is that if A is true B will also always be true, so if B is false we can be sure that A is false as well - i.e. "If not B, not A".

[-] Ep1cFac3pa1m@lemmy.world 22 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

If Nazi, then fascist = true

Fascist, if and only Nazi = not true

If car, then vehicle = true

Vehicle if and only if car = not true

[-] Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com 4 points 9 months ago

I used the bananas are fruits analog but your one works well too!

[-] Ep1cFac3pa1m@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

I just figured with Lemmy’s interest in politics it seemed like an obvious example. I threw in the car because I didn’t want to be that guy who makes everything about nazis…

[-] Boinkage@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

Yeah careful with that, the logic example Nazis will be all over you if you don't mix it up some.

[-] Ep1cFac3pa1m@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

Not everything is about Nazis, Boinkage, geez…

[-] Lafari@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

If car, then vehicle = true

Car if and only if vehicle = true.

Is this correct?

Therefore "If A then B" = "A if and only if B" (or "If B then A" = "B if and only if A")?

[-] zenharbinger@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

B can still be true when a is false. iff means that b can only be true when a is true.

Also, the equivalent statement is.

vehicle if and only if car.

not

car only if vehicle

since a truck is a vehicle, the statement is false.

Somewhat wrong above:

A B a iff b

T T T

T F F

F T F

F F T

look online for truth tables.

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[-] Apepollo11@lemmy.world 18 points 9 months ago

You've have some examples, but in case they are not clear enough:

If [you have AIDS] then [you are unwell]

[You are unwell] if and only if [you have AIDS]

The first one is not the same as the second. Why? There are plenty of ways to be unwell, without necessary developing AIDS.

The first statement only defines one possible path to B, not all of them.

[-] AmidFuror@kbin.social 7 points 9 months ago

Not just HIV, but full blown AIDS?

[-] BananaTrifleViolin@kbin.social 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Actually a good example:

  • If you have AIDs (A) then you have HIV (B). True
  • You have HIV (B) if, and only if, you have AIDS (A). Not true
  • If you don't have HIV (B), then you don't have AIDs (A). True, and the actual inverse of "If A then B"; which is "If not B, then not A"
[-] AmidFuror@kbin.social 5 points 9 months ago

It's important to stress the "full blown" modifier in any example.

[-] Maddie@sh.itjust.works 17 points 9 months ago
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[-] Some_Dumb_Goat@pawb.social 14 points 9 months ago

If A, then B

If Not B, then Not A

If it's raining then the grass is wet, but you can't tell if it's raining if the grass is wet, because of say, a hose or sprinkler.

All that you can tell is that if the grass is dry, then it is not raining, and I that's called a contrapositive.

[-] feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago
[-] flx@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 9 months ago

if youre doing homework, i recommend writing out truth tables for the statements and comparing, gives you a bit more insight into the statement truth conditions

[-] Neon@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

if I brake, my Car will stop.

will my Car only stop if i brake?

[-] lrnz92@feddit.it 3 points 9 months ago
[-] Neon@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago

shhhhhhh. Nobody saw, nobody knows.

Also It's 00:30 over here, cut me some Slack.

[-] Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

“If X is cat, then X is mammal” =?> “X is mammal if and only if X is cat”

Obviously doesn’t hold: What if X doge?

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[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 5 points 9 months ago

I just saw a video on all the logical fallacies that exist, and this was one of them but my shit-ass memory can't recall what the name of the fallacy was.

[-] AmidFuror@kbin.social 3 points 9 months ago

It's Cunningham's Fallacy.

[-] Lafari@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

I think it's affirming the consequent

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[-] EsteemedRectangle@lemmynsfw.com 5 points 9 months ago

Nope. The first statement doesn’t exclude any paths to B

[-] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

A => B is not the same as B <=> A

[-] jbrains@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

No.

B iff A is defined as "If B then A and if A then B".

If that doesn't make it clear enough for you, then try writing out the truth table for both statements.

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this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2024
40 points (82.3% liked)

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