this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2024
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Privacy

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This is an article written by telegram's founder and CEO Pavel Durov in 2019 on "Why whatsapp will never be secure". Your thoughts?

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[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 82 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (13 children)

Sure, fuck WhatsApp, but Telegram isn't even end-to-end encrypted most of the time. Their group chats never are, and their "secret chat" encryption for non-group chats must be explicitly enabled and hardly ever is because it disables some features. And when it is encrypted, it's with some dubious nonstandard cryptography.

It's also pseudo open source; they do publish source code once in a while but it never corresponds to the binaries that nearly everyone actually uses.

And the audacity to talk about metadata when Telegram accounts still require a phone number today (as they did five years ago when this post was written) is just... 🀯

State-sponsored exploits against WhatsApp might be more common than against Telegram, or at least we hear about them more, but it's not because the app is more vulnerable: it's because governments don't need to compromise the endpoint to read your Telegram messages: they can just add a new device to your account with an SMS and see everything.

(β•―Β° Β°οΌ‰β•―οΈ΅ ┻━┻

Anything claiming to prioritize privacy yet asking for your phone number (Telegram, WhatsApp, Signal, ...) is a farce.

[–] Neon@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Anything claiming to prioritize privacy yet asking for your phone number (Telegram, WhatsApp, Signal, ...) is a farce.

Yeah, sure. The privacy farce signal.

I'm getting tired of this stupid hardline-take.

[–] nutomic@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Telegram isn't perfect, but it is infinitely better than Whatsapp because it doesn't belong to Facebook, and also isn't from the United States. Also it can be used by normies without problem, unlike Matrix or Xmpp or what have you.

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Shit, 2019 really was five years ago.

[–] Sal@mander.xyz 5 points 2 years ago

And the audacity to talk about metadata when Telegram accounts still require a phone number today (as they did five years ago when this post was written) is just… 🀯

Not only that, but I believe that they actively try to prevent VoIP numbers from being used to create accounts.

[–] Gooey0210@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago

Bravo, bravo, bravo!!

Dude, see you on the same side of the barricades when the time comes to fight the centralized army of agent Smiths πŸ‘πŸ‘πŸ‘

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[–] crispy_kilt@feddit.de 54 points 2 years ago (3 children)

What a load of hipocrisy. The dude uses unauthenticated DH for his apps "secret chats", which a bored student with a laptop can MITM in seconds. Other chats use just TLS, meaning they get to read EVERYTHING.

Use Signal, people.

[–] clot27@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

which a bored student with a laptop can MITM in seconds

No, how can a bored student breach e2ee in seconds? note that no such cases have been reported by any telegram user so far.

[–] crispy_kilt@feddit.de 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children)

Because the DH is unauthenticated, as I already said. Users can't report it because there is no way to tell for them.

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[–] LWD@lemm.ee 35 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
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[–] amanneedsamaid@sopuli.xyz 28 points 2 years ago (6 children)

"Here's what someone who has never created a private messenger thinks about Whatsapp's privacy."

Why would anyone care about what he has to say? πŸ’€

[–] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago

Owned by Facebook, which is a giant US company.

Of fucking course it has backdoors.

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[–] Papanca@lemmy.world 20 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Clicking the link gives me the following warning:

The site ahead may contain harmful programs

Firefox blocked this page because it might try to trick you into installing programs that harm your browsing experience (for example, by changing your homepage or showing extra ads on sites you visit).

[–] clot27@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (3 children)

weird, works for me in firefox with all privacy features enabled, can you please try this link: https://telegra.ph/Why-WhatsApp-Will-Never-Be-Secure-05-15

[–] Cheradenine@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 years ago

Your original link is blocked at DNS level on my 'Threat intelligence' blocklist.

And that link is blocked at DNS level by 'Toxic' and 'Stop Forum Spam' filters.

So it's blocked before the browser can even connect for me.

[–] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I got the same warning for the original link with ff as well.

Your comment link didn't throw up a red flag.

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[–] mustbe3to20signs@feddit.de 14 points 2 years ago (22 children)

WhatsApp's e2e encryption is based on the Signal protocol and active by default. Telegram's is opt-in. So much for Telegram's superior privacy...

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[–] Aradia@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

WhatsApp will be never private and secure, while Telegram will be never private. 😁

[–] Asudox@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Who said telegram is secure?

[–] Aradia@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (7 children)

No one said the opposite, while on WhatsApp they had several vulnerabilities that allowed attackers to get the user phone control.

An example: https://thehackernews.com/2021/04/new-whatsapp-bug-couldve-let-attackers.html

But there were many more vulnerabilities or "features" that WhatsApp allowed attackers or governments to get into user data. While I haven't read anything about against Telegram security.

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[–] java@beehaw.org 5 points 2 years ago

I'm not qualified enough to argue, but I wouldn't trust Durov. He's a competitor, after all. And he has a history of questionable decisions.

[–] Dehydrated@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Both WhatsApp and Telegram suck. Just like any other messenger that's either proprietary or not end to end encrypted. Signal is clearly the best choice.

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