this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2026
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Privacy

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  • I didn't expected this kind of thing to show up today.

  • I don't want to use a vibecode slop that isnt tested by real humans.

  • I just want a secure and privacy respecting email not ai slop.

  • Good Bye Proton I am Not Happy With You

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Your job is to push the limits of what the LLM can do autonomously, step in for the things that it cannot, and always think of how you can improve the status quo.

and always think of how you can improve the status quo.

I hate this timeline.

[–] boomlandjenkins@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

"The LLM is fast. You are slow, but you carry with you a lifetime of experience, judgment calls, and understanding. "

I hope their next great plan is to extend life expectancy, because without a new wave of experienced humans, this plan is shortsighted.

[–] ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Tutanota is a paid service with a calendar app and email client app on Android and iOS. Fdroid availability too. For desktop, AppImage for major Linux distros, including Arch, Debian, Mint, Fedora, etc. I like it so far. My favorite is all the free aliases so that my spam goes somewhere else. My personal email never gets any nonsense.

Clients are Open Source. The service is paid, but I'd rather pay a bit instead of deal with BS. Nothing is free and they have to pay for those servers to run and keep shit in production. It just 3€ a month to get email, use of custom domains, 20GB storage, unlimited calendars, and you can select a family option to add more people for the same price. You can use 3 custom domains. Not sure if you get the domains or just carry them over, but I'd like to know.

Tuta drive is launching in a few months.

I'm also interested in disroot. Check that out. I've also tried kolabnow which I thought was okay but didn't use it to long. I kind of forgot about it.

[–] lastweakness@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I'm on a multi-year sub unfortunately... I guess I'll still move out whatever I can and just set myself up to not use them

[–] elkien@lemmy.today 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

In your case I would start by getting my own custom domain, still bound to proton, and start moving my accounts to it little by little. Once you decide on a different provider you'll switch your DNS records to it and everything will keep working (potentially also doing a backup of your whole inbox)

[–] lastweakness@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago

Yeah I'm already on a custom domain but I've been depending on Proton Pass' aliases a lot... Well, it's fine. It'll just take time I guess

[–] munkinasack@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This exactly for me. At least it’ll give me time to find the best alternative once everyone settled into their perspective services

[–] lastweakness@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago

Yeah I'm also counting on that

[–] Mikelius@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

"It should come as a surprise to no one at Proton, least of all in engineering, that software engineering has irrevocably changed this year if not before"

Yep, I've never had to fix so many bugs and resolve so many production outages in a single year as I've done this year. AI is great. Couldn't be happier. /s

[–] ghen@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Remember when Windows updates could be moderately trusted to not irrevocably brick devices if not run smoothly

[–] custom_username@reddthat.com 2 points 23 hours ago

I wish you were exaggerating but my workplace has been sending multiple bricked laptops a week in for warranty. All windows update.

[–] excursion22@piefed.ca 15 points 1 day ago

It's almost entertaining at this point to see how out of touch they are. Many Proton users chose them because they were supposed to be the anti-techbro alternative to Google and Micro$oft, and alas, instead of actually taking a look in the mirror, they double down instead.

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 56 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I gotta say I’m getting real tired of having to change my email on every service over and over and over.

[–] nicolovomilion@lemmy.ml 23 points 2 days ago (1 children)
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[–] Snowcano@startrek.website 60 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

This is not the death of expertise. The LLM is fast. You are slow, but you carry with you a lifetime of experience, judgment calls, and understanding.

Listen up Bart, you dumb fuck. If you willingly cede all this creation to the LLM then the last generation of fucking people with expertise are the ones working now! Go down this road and It dies with them.

Because who’s going to bother to learn code when it’s all brain dead chodes like you running the show and telling everyone to hand over the reins…. Oh but of course we’re still the one at fault if something goes wrong because we’re the manager and “Not only are you responsible for the work getting done, you also now own how it gets done.”

Holy fucking Christ, I don’t know if I ever ever gone 180 on an organization as quickly as I have on this one over the past week.

[–] pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip 2 points 22 hours ago

Holy fucking Christ, I don’t know if I ever ever gone 180 on an organization as quickly as I have on this one over the past week.

That's true. They set a speed-run record for dumb-fuckery.

[–] FukOui@lemmy.zip 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Currently the situation at where I work. I get paid to lobotomize a bit of myself every single day

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[–] Yukonfooty@lemmy.ca 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I switched over to Tuta. Not sure I can escape developers using AI, but I can escape a CEO with a giant ego.

[–] pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip 1 points 22 hours ago

I think Andy Yen prefers that you use his entire title, which is "fucking dumbass lunatic CEO with a giant ego."

[–] SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works 87 points 2 days ago (10 children)

Attacking their AI policy is the wrong approach.

Attack their BS leadership. They are the problem.

AI can used responsibly to help make things better, but never under leadership like theirs.

[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 47 points 2 days ago

I can attack both.

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[–] HorseFD@lemmy.zip 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

There are plenty of alternatives, including Posteo.de and Mailbox.org.

[–] bob_lemon@feddit.org 9 points 1 day ago

Both of which support every client via IMAP and SMTP instead of inventing their own protocol for no fucking reason.

My friend likes posteo. I hear good things but never tried it.

[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 64 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

This is not about chasing trends — we are being left behind here, and it is an existential threat to the success of the mission itself.

It’s wild to see how everyone successfully clocked crypto as a scam but then immediately applied the same “NGMI” FOMO mindset to the next scam.

Don’t get me wrong. LLMs are useful for several important software engineering functions: prototyping, iterating on implementations, collecting supplementary data, lining up disjoint interfaces… but it makes a terrible foundation, and it can’t refactor beyond a 101 level.

The only reason the industry is able to pretend that synthetic text extrusion is a sustainable replacement for granular human discernment is because most of our economy is just about building a marketable scam and leaving someone else to hold the bag. If company decision-makers knew they might face any consequences at all for steering the ship into a tar pit, this mass psychosis would not be possible.

Edit:

Also, this…

LLMs are not here to help you write better code faster. Your job is to help the LLM write better code faster.

…is precisely Cory Doctorow’s point about reverse centaurs, and the difference between labor and capital when it comes to deploying new tools. I don’t think they even realize they’re putting the quiet part in bold.

[–] pilotcoder@lemmy.world 24 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

I don't even get what "left behind" even really means here? It's not like they're at the cutting edge of some winner takes all race, they're building already established tech (email, cloud storage, etc.) based on a specific ideology (privacy), and they already have enough momentum and brand recognition to just continue riding the current privacy-tech wave. I just don't get why they felt the need to rock the boat with drama like this. This whole saga just reads too much like VC backed "move fast and break things" mindset which would put a sizeable chunk of their core customer base off the product

[–] underisk@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 days ago

Profit must always increase at an exponential rate or your company is a failure. Sustainability is death to these psychos.

I believe that the CEO has delusions of being a Google competitor, at least in the EU. That seems to align with their consistent behavior of releasing new products while leaving their existing apps and services in a mostly, kinda functional state. Who asked for Lumo? How much did their customers want a crypto wallet? Spreadsheets and documents? From what I can tell, most of us wanted a fully functional email client, a working calendar and a VPN, all of which should have feature parity across all their supported platforms. Instead we put up with trash apps while Proton makes continually unfulfilled promises and rolls out another unnecessary product.

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[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 24 points 2 days ago (1 children)

they gave some hints when their ceo started praising fascists.

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[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

I predicted this and argued with so many people about Proton being a shitty company. I am not even happy about this, just sad that so many people wasted their time and money.

[–] ducktumn@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Is buying my own domain and paying for tuta the move guys?

[–] lavander@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 day ago

Definitely buy for your own domain.

Sadly it’s the only way of having “portability” for mails

Tuta? Sure Infonaniak? Why not? The next thing? We will see Self hosting? Maybe you’ll have enough time to do that one day

The only way to have control of your digital destiny is portability

[–] elkien@lemmy.today 24 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

it's just the last drop in the bucket but, tbh, this shouldn't come as a surprise from Andy seeing his past behaviour. Although I must admit that reading that manifesto from the CTO did make me puke so hard. As a developer myself (and yes, one that does use a mix of hand-written code and LLMs to some degree), seeing a CTO writing a manifesto like that one would basically mean to me: right, fuck these guys, time for a new job.

I'm glad that I've been this whole year transitioning all my important accounts to use a custom domain as their main email and seeing all this clusterfuck was the reminder I needed to cancel my Proton account.

My new provider is ForwardEmail, I was unsure between them or Mailbox.org but then went with the former as, since I self-host a lot of my services, I don't need all the extra bloat. Tuta may be an option for some but for me was out of the options, I want to use Email client without the need of having to install an intermediary local proxy.

Regardless of what you choose to use now, highly recommend you get a custom domain. After that switching provider is as simple and changing DNS entries in your DNS registrar.

[–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 34 points 2 days ago (14 children)

Have a look at mailbox.org, it's a German provider of email/drive/calendar/office/conferencing. They've been around for a few decades and they use Linux and FOSS.

https://mailbox.org/en/about-us/

May Be a Linux Client Support

You can use any email client you want because they use standard IMAP and SMTP, and their non-mail services are used in the browser.

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[–] scytale@piefed.zip 20 points 2 days ago

Nowhere in the manifesto did they mention that security is still a priority and not an afterthought despite wanting to move faster and faster with AI. That is the problem. I guess that’s why he’s a CTO and not a CISO. But you would think a company that sells security and privacy as its product would have security-centric folks all the way to top management.

[–] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 42 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Idgaf about them using AI per se. It is out of the bag, and it ain't going back in unless everyone throws a revolution to kill the people in charge and destroy every bit of knowledge on how to create it again. That just isn't happening. And it is possible for good humans to use the technology to craft good programming.

What I do gaf about is the people in charge of proton being assholes, treatingboth their employees and customers like shit, and not even trying to hide their contempt.

[–] emmy5482@quokk.au 23 points 2 days ago (12 children)

I guess there's already dogshit all over the floor. It's out of the dog so it's not going back in. Guess we leave it how it is.

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[–] ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip 10 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Why has productivity not increased dramatically if everyone is using LLMs all the time already?

I have NOT heard of a company whose productivity increased dramatically though (but the quality goes down, I wonder why).

There are startups that are getting PoCs faster, but thats about it.

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[–] sayitghoul@lemmy.world 30 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Wow, Proton keeps disappointing... Time to leave for me as well! I'm looking at Posteo as I'm worried Tuta will turn into the next Proton. Not only that, I'm sick of being stuck with the apps made by the providers, I'll use Thunderbird thank you!

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