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Parkable cities (startrek.website)
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[-] cobysev@lemmy.world 221 points 6 months ago

When I lived in Germany for a while, my wife and I took a train across the country one winter to Munich for the Christmas markets. We stayed in a hostel and walked the streets, enjoying the various stalls. I'd never heard of Glüwein before (hot, mulled, spiced red wine), but it was fantastic! It was an amazing experience and we didn't have to worry about parking lots or figuring out public transportation. Everything was within walking distance and we ended up touring all of Munich on foot.

I wish the US would get off its ass and get some high speed trains set up. We just need to keep oil and auto dealers out of the discussion because they keep shutting it down. Like Musk's "Hyperloop" project, which he proposed to stop legislation from approving high speed trains, but then intentionally did nothing with, so we just don't develop trains to replace his Tesla cars.

[-] stoy@lemmy.zip 143 points 6 months ago

High speed trains should actually not be the primary focus of the US when it commes to public transport, city/suburban systems are more important.

Don't get me wrong, the US absolutely needs high speed rail, but without a well functioning local public transport system at both ends you end up with something that conceptually is more like an airport than a european train station.

Without local public transport, travelers still need to go by car to and from the endpoints, just like a lot of airports, this means that stations will require a lot of expensive parking, that is essentially wasted space.

Now, the US will probably allways be car dependant to a higher degree than Europe, this is due to how cities have been built, unchecked urban sprawl with little mixed use zones with few central spots makes it hard to build good metro and bus lines, where do you put the stations, where will people connect?

I won't pretend to have the answers, I absolutely don't, but I know that regardless of how public transport is established in new and existing neighbourhoods there will be angry people, but lets just make sure that the happy people outnumber them

[-] dustyData@lemmy.world 16 points 6 months ago

100% without local city restructuring with mixed zoning and suburban redevelopment for proper land use, high speed rail developments will result on those stupid “middle of nowhere” train stations that are just railways from giant parking lot to giant parking lot. Completely undermining the whole point of rail that is being able to drop you off right in the middle of dense cities, which airports can't due to the logistics of flight.

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[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 168 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

This reminds me of that AskHistorian thread of someone asking where people parked their chariots when Roman citizens went to the coliseum.

[-] Neato@kbin.social 27 points 6 months ago

Heh. Their palanquin or litter would drop them off and go sit in an alley or street somewhere, probably. Like how carriages in later centuries would.

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[-] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 10 points 6 months ago
[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 28 points 6 months ago

Iirc, chariots where only used to transport people and goods between towns and cities, being pretty rare inside cities if not completely forbidden.

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[-] Zehzin@lemmy.world 16 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Trick question. They didn't, the chauffeur did it for them.

[-] JoMiran@lemmy.world 74 points 6 months ago

New Yorkers get it but that's about it.

[-] treetop@lemmy.world 31 points 6 months ago

I think Chicago is the only other US city that comes close, their transit is fantastic!

[-] mriormro@lemmy.world 11 points 6 months ago
[-] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 8 points 6 months ago

DC's light rail is pretty nice too. LA's could be nice if there were more frequent trains, but that probably has more to do with how sprawled LA is.

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[-] HiddenLayer5@lemmy.ml 57 points 6 months ago

They probably assumed this is like a theme park or something and not an actual city that people actually live in year round. Cities having nice, people friendly places away from cars? Who's ever heard of that?

[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 37 points 6 months ago

They have transit to back that up though. There are plenty of smallish towns and rural areas that don't have any transit at all.

[-] rekabis@programming.dev 66 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

At the same time, those towns are hella compact, such that 90+% of residents can walk to pretty much any retailer or store or other resource within 15-20 minutes. Yes, some people (farmers) live outside of town and there are some American-style housing in clumps outside of the town, but everyone mostly lives in tight clusters.

And even the tiny towns well away from other larger towns have busses that move people between towns on a fairly regular If infrequent basis (15-20 minutes apart). Only the larger population centres can afford to have public transport that comes every 5 minutes or so.

You also have to understand that in North America, a “significant separation between towns” is something like 100+km. In Germany, that term qualifies with as little as a 10km distance. It’s rare to find any population centre that is more than 20km away from its nearest neighbour.

[-] macarthur_park@lemmy.world 17 points 6 months ago

fairly regular If infrequent basis (15-20 minutes apart)

lol that’s the frequency that the busses and trains near me operate during peak commute times. I finally broke down and bought a car. I’m American if you couldn’t tell…

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[-] Cheesus@lemmy.ca 16 points 6 months ago

I live in France, about 30 minutes from a major city. There is transit, but it's not good, and has very few stops near where I live. Grocery shopping has to be done by car or bike as there aren't any shops in the village. European cities are extremely well served by transit, but outside the metropolitan areas, cars are still king.

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[-] echo64@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago

I enjoy when someone shows up to prove the meme true

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[-] qazwsxedcrfvtgb1111@sh.itjust.works 25 points 6 months ago

Well this guy’s apparently never been to Germany, they do in fact have a lot of parking garages and street parking in cities. Is straight up lying how you’re going to convince people to build public transit?

[-] BluesF@lemmy.world 79 points 6 months ago

Of course there is some parking, but there is no need for a dedicated car park for this market. Many of these people will have come on foot or by public transport, that isn't a lie at all. Public transport in Germany isn't exactly a model to follow imo (I was surprised, I expected it to be down to an art tbh), but like most of Europe the cities are walkable and at least have some form of public transport system.

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[-] Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 6 months ago

There is no parking area just for the christmas market though, which is what the american assumed

[-] 7Sea_Sailor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 6 months ago

Completely off topic, but can anyone pinpoint this Christmas market? Looks hella cozy, but I don't recognize the buildings around it.

[-] whome@discuss.tchncs.de 20 points 6 months ago

I'd say that's the Striezelmarkt in Dresden (Germany's oldest Christmas market over 580 years old) but the big ones kinda all look like that.

By the way that's what they have to say about the posts topic on their website: "best accessibility: local public transport, on foot and by bike"

[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 16 points 6 months ago

I believe that is Dresden.

[-] Sorgan71@lemmy.world 21 points 6 months ago

they dont park cars. They crush them and build new ones when they want to go somewhere

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[-] niktemadur@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago

Is that Munich? I'm getting strong Viktualienmarkt vibes.

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this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2023
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