Proton VPN's anti-censorship Stealth protocol finally lands on Linux : linux

[–] Marija_@programming.dev 3 points 13 hours ago

Essential tool to keep users spyfree.

[–] Wobble@lemmy.dbzer0.com 66 points 1 day ago (4 children)

In a major win for open-source enthusiasts, Proton VPN has officially launched its proprietary Stealth protocol in beta for Linux.

Open-source enthusiasts and proprietary software? That does not sound like the happy union.

[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 42 points 1 day ago

It's the author conflating "Linux" and "open source". In their statement, Proton states "Linux community" snd the author promptly writes "open source community". Knowing the difference between the two seems like a requirement to write for a tech publication, but maybe that's just my crazy opinion.

[–] shirasho@feddit.online 9 points 1 day ago

The venn diagram doesn't need to be perfectly overlapping circles. When open source is not a viable option or you need something beyond the scope of what open source offers, the next best thing is to use a product from a reputable company that has been properly audited and has not completely enshittified.

Now, whether Proton is truly that company is up for debate. The CEO has made some pretty troubling comments, but the products themselves have not devolved all that much. You can probably find better than Proton, but you can absolutely find a hell of a lot worse.

[–] MagicShel@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

What is a proprietary protocol? Is that like mpeg where everyone knows how to implement it but you have to pay them to use it?

[–] pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Well the stealth mode is only on protonvpn, so they haven't allowed anybody else to use it either

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

But is the code open source or not?

[–] pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 22 hours ago

The clients are but servers aren't

[–] UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I think the protocol was developed in-house and only the code is open source? I think the protocol itself is not public to make it harder to spot, since its whole purpose is to dodge deep packet inspection

[–] aketawi@quokk.au 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Vless/Reality and AWG are both open source and they're still dodging DPI just fine. Can someone pass the memo to the Security Exprets at Proton that security through obscurity is the worst stake to gamble on when each packet in your transmission is gonna be dissected and studied by a gaggle of state researchers working on DPI anyway

[–] leanleft@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

opinion: title should be /on linux/for linux/

[–] shirasho@feddit.online 6 points 1 day ago

While they have an official app for Arch, this functionality is not yet available on that flavor of distro.

[+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -9 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I’ll never trust Proton, not with all the “headlines” they can’t seem to stop making

[–] staircase@programming.dev 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I've not seen a single article about Proton that's made me abandon them. Diversified away from, yes, but not abandon.

The privacy community will be under fire from very powerful interests, so I also take all criticism with a mountain of salt.

[–] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Whatever your comfort level, I hope that turns out OK for you.

I’m only using providers who have zero “nazi incidents”

[–] staircase@programming.dev 3 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)

Which Proton incident(s) do you consider "nazi"?

[–] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world 0 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

The ones that the Proton CEO knows about - he’s the one whose name miraculously appearing next to “Trump” and “GOP.”

I use providers who are not “nazi-adjacent”

[–] staircase@programming.dev 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Would you mind pointing to a specific example? I know he praised a Trump appointee a while back, regarding approach to big tech. Was there another?

[–] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 9 hours ago

They’re so easy to find if you don’t mind, since every time I post a link I get pissed off chuds DM’ing me that I hurt their feelings because of email of all things. Email. My god.

[–] deadlysodium@lemmus.org 3 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Out of curiosity which VPN do you recommend? I have Bazzite and it seemed like Proton was the best choice.

[–] shirasho@feddit.online 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Proton is fine.

The CEO has said some troubling things, but the products themselves are fine for now. It is one thing to be cautious, but it is a problem when you use the ramblings and comments of an executive as an excuse to ignore how the company actually operates.

If it were like the MyPillow guy I could understand, but we are not there.

[–] aketawi@quokk.au 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

not op but you should just self host. VPSs are cheap - entry tariffs are like 3-5$/month for most providers, and thats more than enough to set up a Wireguard or anything else, traffic limits are rarely an issue. if your hosting goes to shit, it's easy enough to recreate the config elsewhere

[–] scoutfdt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

You are again tied up to the VPS provider in the same way you are tied up to you ISP so there's not going to be too much privacy there. A VPN like that is useful for using it for other purposes such as playing LAN games, placing your other hosted services behind it as an additional security measure or getting access to multiple servers that don't have public access (such as your home lab behind a NAT). But it doesn't annonymize you the way VPN providers "claim" they annonymize you.

[–] heppen@fosstodon.org 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

@aketawi whats with "selfhost" on vps? Still, you need to trust your vps provider... Also you need to manage it. I though selfhost is a term for selhosting files for example from your home server.

[–] aketawi@quokk.au 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

not necessarily, you could Host anything by yourSelf on a rented VPS and it will still be "more selfhosted" than buying a commercial VPN. if you're buying just to use it as a proxy, trust is also a nonissue since your traffic will be encrypted anyhow and you store no sensitive data. just don't use a plain http proxy lol

[–] 6_Electrons@lemmy.world -5 points 1 day ago

I support mullvad. Please note I don't think they necessarily provide the best service but I feel like they're the most ethical. From their pricing model where you pay the same month to month or if you buy 10 years at a time to them not requiring an account.

That said somehow my speeds on mullvad are double what I could ever get on proton (this confuses me and makes me a bit nervous but if true is cool) and I have yet to have a streaming service block me from being on a VPN (again to clarify I've only used mullvad for a couple months)

[+] hellmo_luciferrari@lemmy.zip -7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Mullvad

[–] jagermo@feddit.org 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If you don't like Proton because the CEO said something shitty, i have bad news about Mullvad

[–] hellmo_luciferrari@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I can understand that. However, ability to pay cash is wonderful. And I may not agree with ehat either people of either company says. But I will say that Mullvad VPN is superior to Proton.

[–] rainwall@piefed.social 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Ivpn is also identity-less, accepts cash, has the same no logging, ram only infrastructure as mullvad, and isn't run by facists.

[–] hellmo_luciferrari@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 day ago

Thank you for the pointer. Gonna check this out.

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The nice thing about proton is that they offer a suite of tools comparable to Google, but all privacy respecting (email, docs, drive, etc). So they're an easy recommendation for people dependent on those services. I almost never use their VPN, but it is neat that I have the option of a paid VPN along with the rest.

Also I only just noticed the other day that proton offers multi-hop VPNs now, so that your entrance and exit nodes are under different jurisdictions, is that just the standard for VPN services these days? I thought that was a pretty neat feature.

[–] hellmo_luciferrari@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

I am not a lover or hater of proton. I just know that for my needs and desires mullvad checks all boxes. Their VPN infrastructure is diskless (source: https://mullvad.net/en/blog/we-have-successfully-completed-our-migration-to-ram-only-vpn-infrastructure) and the ability to pay with cash. And the fact your account is just a number and no need for entering in other identifiable info. Add in 5he fact I can get OpenVPN config files or Wireguard config files directly exported so I dont have a need for another piece of software I dont need.

Where as protons VPN client if I am not mistaken is locked behind their proprietary software for connection.

I absolutely see the value in other things they offer, as I was investigating paying for email through them. But I just haven't done it.

Vpns aren't a silver bullet. They have their use case. I just know i have to have trust in the company in using their service. ~~And with the cooperation with law enforcement proton has stated to do; I am not going to use that offering. ~~ And not sure if that is standard for VPNs these days though I like that idea.

For the other service offerings they have, I self host what I need.

--Edit: struck through something I believed but could not find the source on it I was sure I had read. By no means do I want to spread misinformation. Apologies.

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yeah, I do wish proton was more open about their tech. I do know that proton allows you to make free accounts without giving them identifiable info (which makes them a popular choice for scammers, which is annoying when services just block their email domain thinking it's always nefarious). I don't recall what the payment options are, but I'd be surprised if they didn't have any crypto/anonymous ways to pay.

I still haven't made use of the proton VPN, mostly because, yeah, I don't care for running a proprietary client for something like that, but also the last time I looked into it they did offer wireguard configs that would do the same thing. The client is just intended to be a familiar cross platform interface. No idea about this Stealth mode protocol, though. Seems like that would have to be run locally.

If you do pay for their email, I recommend bringing your own domain. 99% of the time the proton.me domain works fine, but for the 1% of the time when a system has a problem, it does make me wonder if there's somewhere in their system blacklisting their domain.

with the cooperation with law enforcement proton has stated to do

I'm curious what statements you're referring to. For a company to continue operating, they have to comply with local law enforcement to the extent the law requires. They don't have a choice. If you asked mullvad, they would say the same. But the point of all these services is that they (claim to) do their best to not keep any records by design, so that when law enforcement comes with a subpoena, they have as little as possible to hand over in cooperation. But yeah, as you said, at the end of the day we just have to trust that that's how they operate.

[–] hellmo_luciferrari@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 day ago

I also wish they were open with their tech. That is true; and would be hard to protect against it without outright blocking proton as a whole for sign-ups.

I aim to go as open as I can with everything. I know it's not feasible to go 100% with some niche needs I have. So I just aim to use as much open tech as possible because it aligns with what I believe.

Absolutely was going to bring my own domain if I go down the proton route.

I will retract my statement on law enforcement; I couldn't find any of the sources I thought I had on there being words about law enforcement cooperation. I will absolutely not push a false narrative; so thank you for pointing that out. If I do find what I thought I remembered seeing info on, I will update my comment/replies.

Ultimately it doesn't matter how well a software can protect your information/data, etc; if the company/entity using it doesn't value what privacy/safety/security.

And ultimately, I am not a a defacto source on what others should do. That should be up to the individual based on their goals.

[–] Grimdraken@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Not trying to convince you to jump ship, your reasons for using mullvad seem sound, but I wanted to mention you can also export OpenVPN Configs from proton too. You're not locked to the app.

[–] hellmo_luciferrari@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 day ago

Good they offer that. I dont believe on brand loyalty. So keeping options open in accordance to my beliefs is the way I go typically.

[–] village604@adultswim.fan 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

What, the CEO making a comment about a trump appointee or them complying with court orders?