this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2026
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

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[–] Inesophet@lemmy.world 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah nah, i've been watching DIS, PIC and new starting to watch SNW, and they are all side by side considerably worse in the writing department. SNW being markedly better but still nowhere near TNG/VOY/DS9/ENT. Sure they had a few stinkers that made little sense, but they also had 24 episodes a season, the production budget of a mildly succesful youtuber and the shit they dared to tackle social justice was out of this world, considering the time.

Even episodes i liked alot on SNW, such as the timetravel ep in S2, was wisely in the older shows generally a two parter. But even with time constraints (no pun intended) this was probably the worst time travel episode i've seen, and these are generally slam dunks. I like that SNW tackles some actual "morals of the story" which is quite different and i like that. But even at its peak new trek just doesnt come close.

I think Andor and strangely enough The Orville has shown what franchise scifi could be. That the old and new concepts work if the cast, crew, producers and especially the writers take the subject matter seriously when its important. And not just "phoney'ing it in" best example, the pilot. Where a prewarp civ has developed "warpboms" from an observation of a battle, and that is threatening to ....wait, what? How dont have nuclear weapons? Apparently not, so how can they understand warpphysics if they have not yet even discovered relativity? It makes no sense. Then in the same episode Pike gives a monologue to the entire planets population and injects personal drama stuff in it that these people couldnt possibly know about. As a mid season filler episode, it would have been servicable at best, but that was the freaking pilot.

I love startrek, but not at all cost. Especially since we can make better and smarter television. For fucks sake i want to be challenged, perhaps also in my set morals. I want to feel like a dumb kid again. Andor and Orville managed to do that. But startrek is being neglected and due to the atrocious writing, the message they do want to send is getting corrupted.

[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

The way The Orville has handled some subject matter has actually even blown TNG out of the water - and found the humour in it at the same time. Looking at you, Bortus' Sex Lagoon.

Topa's trans storyline - including that glorious culmination aired during Pride - is the best of any sci fi this century.

[–] orlyowl@piefed.ca 13 points 1 day ago (2 children)
[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 4 points 16 hours ago

Homosexuality cipher in Rejoined, holocaust in conscience of a king (hell, Kirk was written AS A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR) , abortion rights in mark of gideon, disabled crewmembers, secularist society, vietnam on taste of armageddon, post colonialism and struggle for national indentiry in DS9, Far beyond the stars, "leave your bigotry in your quarters, there's no room go it on the bridge" i mean come the fuck ON fakeass fans deliberately being obtuse at this point

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 3 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

enterprise had a gender episode too, but with a 3rd sex, genderless in a complicated reproductive species(vissians).

[–] reksas@sopuli.xyz 20 points 1 day ago (2 children)

anyone who whines about "woke" is automatically a bad person in my eyes. at least usage of the word is good way for them to out themselves.

[–] FatVegan@leminal.space 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's always painful when "normal" people in my life complain about thay shit. Like my sister, she very nice and all and kind of "traditional" in a way, hard to explain. Holy shit, tye stuff that annoys her nor no reason. Sometimes i hear her on the phone going: ugh, yes, it has to be politically correct. Same with that gender stuff, right? I always think like wtf, you have two kids, you don't go out anymore, you live in a small town and you talk to like 10 people, why in the world does things like that bother you? Luke she even knows transgender guys, she went to school with a non binary person in the late 90, where no one even knew what the fuck is going on. She has two gay friends and a gay uncle and she likes all of these guys, but still rolls her eyes when a gay person is in a movie or they gender swap swap someone. SHE DOESN'T EVEN WATCH MOVIES. she doesn not care at all. I really don't know what it is, but i know a few people like that who have weird priorities in their lifes or what they decide to make a problem.

[–] reksas@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

i wonder if its severe lack of metacognition. They have heard some awful things from somewhere, maybe some hateful news channel or some person who seems okay to them but also spouts hate occasionally. And then they internalize it without even knowing what is happening because they can't question their own thoughts. Metacognition seems to be kind of like immune system for the mind, at least that is how I see it.

Its quite ironic how some rave against "woke" when they themselves are essentially asleep. At least personally i consider woke to mean that you are actually aware of stuff. Maybe that is the reason the truely wicked people went so hard on demonizing the whole thing. They could lose everything if enough people "woke up". Even more ironic how they also talk about stuff like "mind viruses", when they essentially are about as well in the head as plague zombie is physically. But then again, every accusation from certain kind of people is a confession. The source where all that shit stems from is likely very aware how much their methods resemble how virus works.

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[–] Soulcreator@programming.dev 10 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I think it's very easy to claim 'woke' with modern star trek, but I think the issue is that politics used to be more tightly wound into the plot in that they used to express leftist viewpoints in a natural way that served the plot. The episodes were well thought out and were rich with allegory and metaphors.

Now the political views have remained largely the same from before, but the writing has suffered to an extent that things feel forced and no longer serve the plot in a natural way. It's less thought provoking, and more "here's the moral of the story". Which for better or worse only really underscores Star Trek's leftist views.

[–] cecinestpasunecommunication@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

Bullshit. Modern star trek is fine I guess, but like, wasn't the captain in 'discovery' ever so slightly faschy? There's the ship that runs on doing mushrooms and an openly gay character. That's like it. It's not even the wokest star trek, what with the other one having the trans wormgirl and the sheriff who turns into a cloud for fun and the space-palestinian security officer and all the explicit antifascism while the semi-defecting fascist spy flirts with Dr. twink under the watchful eye of black space-jesus(n'awlins edition).

Compare it to actual woke fiction from the decade previous, three mediums:

Sense8(TV): the main character is just a trans woman, everything is a metaphor for 'drugs are great, fuck the state', and everything is queer. There's a 'detransition is murder' arc. There's a hive-mind-body-swapping orgy. Several, I think. Magical prison support is a major theme. Also prison breaks. Cops in your affinity group fucks everything up.

Pillars of eternity(video game): the druid is straight up an indigenous bisexual furry. If you're too racist, he will seduce your wife, turn into a wolf, seduce your dog, and then steal your cart with all your beer on it on his way out. the paladin is transmasc-not-trans misotheist secret agent of kinda-revolutionary-kinda-dugallist france. he wizard is literally two spirit and a gay uptight British schoolboy/ancient appalachian party girl. The Americans worship the goddess of fire and conflict above all others and literally did the high fantasy Manhattan project to murder the god of forgiveness rebirth and being nice to each other when he popped into a dirt farmer and declared communism-jihad in canadappalachia. Everything is so Hegelian it hurts. There's a joke ancap paladin subclass. The main plot is about the brutal violence of manifest destiny and its echoes through history, a stillbirth epidemic, and Americans all being howling fascists led by a shadow government of CIA telepaths. Doctor/scientists actually trying to solve the problem, who might even have a shot, are regularly lynched basically for being nerds.

I won't even start on recent books, partially because I don't look at publication dates for those, and partially because nobody else has ever read one. But let's just say the nearest non-star-trek-branded equivalent to 'star trek' in literature (not a consideration in other media, went for 'within a decade) is the 'culture' series, which is falGsc(explicitly anarchist) where literally everyone is trans and drugs are a thing you get from your drug glands that grow in during puberty. Authority always turns out badly.

[–] kshade@lemmy.world 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Discovery was generally written badly, so yeah, the message also suffered from that. If there even was one.

[–] Soulcreator@programming.dev 2 points 11 hours ago

And that's kind of what I'm getting at, the writing for Discovery was lacking in a way that everything felt forced and rushed. The plot, pacing, the character relationships, etc. Why would we expect the politics to feel subtle when nothing else in that show was subtle?

[–] Ismay@programming.dev 5 points 1 day ago (7 children)

You never watched TNG right ? It was literally either a philosophical lesson or a critic of society by episode ...

[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Maybe take a little of that energy you spend watching Trek closely and put it towards reading comments more carefully?

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[–] Blibly@lemmy.world 81 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Conservatives hated star trek when it first aired in the 60s.

There isn't a single thing in life that they can just accept as it is.

[–] Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world 30 points 2 days ago (1 children)

If they don't control it they can't accept it

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[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

And now they whine constantly about how woke the new Trek is and how much better the old Trek was because it didn't hit you over the head with such liberal concepts like racism, sexuality, or politics. 😂

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Trek was conceived woke. If anything it's moved away from that with its overuse of Section 31 and the mirror universe. And now there's a war college.

[–] Exatron@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's one of the reasons I've despised Section 31 almost from its inception. I don't mind the concept of the Federation having spies and stuff, but an out of control shadow organization who claims it's secretly running things is a little too X-Files.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

That’s one of the reasons I’ve despised Section 31 almost from its inception.

It was intriguing back when it was one guy and you didn't know if he was sane. Now they're the Heroic Protectors Of Starfleet! The post-scarcity diverse utopia needs unaccountable fascists slinking around in black pleather behind the scenes in order to function, after all.

[–] DrivebyHaiku@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago

Honestly I think the difference perceived by the "too woke" brigade is that a lot of the older storylines featured what felt like exceptions to the norm. Smaller instances of people being accepting. An example might be a trans person existing was a whole storyline usually with a gimmick rather than just a given that was treated as the norm that requires no explanation. Individuals being chill very rarely is their problem. It's when someone tries to get them to change their ways and accept something as "normal" that they go bonkers

But yeah... Woke is such a non term referring to any cultural advancement of acceptance at scale that of course Star Trek was always "woke" it was culturally transformative and minority aware from the beginning

[–] lordnikon@lemmy.world 47 points 2 days ago (5 children)

I will say how awesome would it be if children came out genderless till adulthood then they touch a seashell to pick on their 18th birthday. Solve so may problems. STEM becomes more accessible to woman. No pink tax on toys.

[–] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 30 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Ursula K. Le Guin has entered the chat.

"Left Hand of Darkness" posits a human like society where people can morph between sexes.

[–] teft@piefed.social 22 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Iain M. Bank's Culture series also has people shifting between sexes. It's just a thought process and time for them. One of the books the main character has switched a few times but is currently a male and one of his friends is transitioning.

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[–] Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world 27 points 2 days ago (4 children)

When did it become woke? The Cage. When there was a competent women wearing pants, as 2nd in command and not used as a damsel where Pike occasionally slapped her ass and called her toots.

[–] Repelle@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Not to mention a black woman as communications officer on the bridge. All this happens within the first few … seconds of the pilot?

[–] teft@piefed.social 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Not to mention a black woman as communications officer on the bridge.

Uhura doesn't show up until The Corbomite Maneuver in this shot:

So obviously it became woke in the 3rd episode of The Original Series. /s

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[–] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My biggest problem with NuTrek is that it's too dark. Not in a "thematic" sense but in "projected photons" sense. I feel like I'm straining my eyes to see what's happening on the the set.

It's one of the reasons I loved Lower Decks so much. I could see what was happening.

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[–] Vertelleus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 2 days ago
[–] lemmylommy@lemmy.world 22 points 2 days ago (25 children)

It didn’t become woke after Enterprise, just mostly shitty. With showrunners that like to hide behind the supposed wokeness as a defense against criticism and rightwing assholes happily blaming the shittiness on wokeness.

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