this post was submitted on 13 May 2026
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Recently there's been quite a bit of outrage because the developer of Piefed publicly called out the Fediverse Anarchist Flotilla (FAF) for supposedly using LLM for automating instance moderation. and even though many of our admins the larger lemmy community took great lengths to debunk that post, it has become the disinfo that keeps on giving (see https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/68749575, https://kolektiva.social/@ophiocephalic/116518887925988112, https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/68222242 and more)

After clarifying our position for yet another time, someone suggested we should make an official post and an instance policy to "give me something I can boost as a positive example and a sign that things will be better going forward." and given that this storm-in-a-teacup doesn't seem to be abating as people are all too happy to bring it up again and again to malign the FAF; We're making this post to once and for all clarify this situation.

History

We're not going to rehash the whole drama and the many hit pieces against the FAF in the past two weeks, but I need to post the exact situation as it happened, without speculations and assumptions that people are all too happy to jump to.

  • One of our mods develops a tool to download a user's public posting history through the lemmy API, to be used for evaluating them during moderation and shares it with some people in the admin team as something in progress. This tool does not feed anything to LLMs, it simply downloads the comments locally in a text file for easier review than going via the lemmy GUI.
  • Someone is reported to our instance admins for blatant zionism and genocide apologia.
  • An admin uses the tool to download the accused person's comment history for evaluation
  • A quick evaluation (without LLM) confirms that this is a person that needs to be instance-banned. The moderation decision has now been locked-in at this point.
  • At the same time, that admin was curious to discover if LLMs can used to summarize people's positions so that people can quickly follow-up with mod actions, without having to evaluate everyone's posts manually and reduce the workload of admins writing long justifications)
  • As an experiment, the admin pass the user's comment history through a locally-run open-weights LLM (Qwen) to see the summarized output. It happens to match their own decision.
  • The admin decides the leave the LLM summary in a pastebin along with that user's posting history for reference. As an inside joke, they decide to claim the post was summarized by OpenAI, as they expected only our community would care about this and our stance on corporate-LLMs is well-known at this point.
  • The admin bans that person, providing a link to that pastebin as justification.
  • The admin decides not to continue using LLMs anyway for summaries, for many valid reasons. As evidence see the lack of other pastebins with LLM summaries.

~2 weeks pass...

  • The piefed developer is banned by a different mod in our instance for "zionism". (I put this in quotes as this is one mod's opinion, and not necessarily our instance's position.)
  • The piefed developer apparently starts going through our instance modlogs for banned zionists and parses all their justifications
  • The piefed developer discovers that modlog justification from 2 weeks before with the LLM summary.
  • The piefed developer ask quickly in the common lemmy admin channel about it, at which point our instance admin in question, clarifies that the LLM was not used in the decision-making.
  • The piefed developer does not officially reach to anyone else from our admin team, despite the fact that we've reached out before and asked them to contact us in advance for inter-instance matters to avoid escalations.
  • The piefed developer make the public call-out I linked above as a piece of investigative journalism. The piefed developer does not provide the comments from our team which conflict with their narrative. The piefed developer not ask us for an official statement.
  • The piefed developer to this day has not amended their public call-out from the comments multiple of our admins and lemmy users leave under their post, conflicting with the narrative.

If you feel I've misrepresented any steps of this history, please let us know and I'll be happy to adjust.

Given that, we acknowledge that even though we didn't use LLMs in moderations, we allowed it to appear as if we did, and that's on us. We will of course not do the same mistake again (appear as to be using LLMs for moderation)

The FAF's stance on LLM moderation

We are aware that our instance is seen as "LLM-friendly" due to our nuanced take on LLMs but that does not mean that we, as an instance, ever considered using LLMs for moderating our instance. So we want to make it absolutely crystal clear how we stand on the matter.

As an official policy:

  • We have never used LLMs to guide our moderation decisions. This includes using LLM summaries which we would then validate, as well as LLM summaries which we use to confirm our existing decisions. LLMs are just not in our moderation loop whatsoever.
  • We have never passed instance data to corporate LLMs.
  • We have not used any automated moderation tooling which utilizes LLMs. The closest we have is the FOSS anti-CSAM filter I've developed and shared for years now, which relies strictly on locally-hosted machine-vision models.
  • We have never officially considered using LLMs for moderation, nor do we plan to.
  • As a team we're steadfastly against LLM for moderation due to its inherent biases.
  • If any of the above changes, we will publicly inform the FAF community.

We hope this can finally put this matter to rest.

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[–] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 51 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The piefed developer can get fucked. This one person has caused nothing but chaos in the Lemmy community. I've seen similar posts to this one, having to do with different topics, where admins and mods have to put out some stupid statement to counter some dogshit decision or opinion from this person.

A few examples:

[–] lambisio@feddit.cl 7 points 3 weeks ago

Not to mention editorializing other people's posts through federation, at the viewer/render level. Basically Piefed has native tooling to gaslight its users.

[–] VanillaWasp@lemmy.dbzer0.com 44 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

The biggest issue besides the llm is

a tool to download a user’s public posting history through the lemmy API

I think this needs to be very clearly explained to users in general. In the name of public education.

Your posting history is public, and can and will be used against you. At this point in time, anything posted on the internet is essentially permanent public history. It's in a database somewhere that can be leaked or scraped.

This is not a lemmy or dbzer0 problem.

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 3 weeks ago

It is incredible to me that in 2026 people do not understand that a webpage you (anyone) can view without logging in to anything... is public.

I just don't get it.

How long have people been trying to say 'The Internet Is Forever'?

... Yeah, apparently there does need to be some actual education effort of some kind as to the fundamental basics of how lemmy / the internet works.

[–] Grainne@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

Even your messages are technically public.

There is nothing stopping a bad actor from scraping every thing said on the Fediverse. I’m sure it won’t be long until the CIA is harvesting everything you do here to prosecute people for being antifa or something.

[–] NotFrenchJack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

The best way to get full access to fediverse data (including e.g. voting) is to run your own instance. So what instances, do we think, are operated by bad actors, irrespective of their identity or nature❓🤔

Or to get more conspiratorial, a bad actor would need one or more big instances to collect that info without sticking out. So which big instances, do we think, would be willing to give, or sell, a "bad actor" full access❓😉
(This of course assumes that none of the big instances were created by bad actors).

In any case, if you're posting overton wrongthink™, and not doing it (pseudo-)anonymously, then you're doing it wrong. I mean, you're in a network/platform that goes as far as encouraging you to use multiple accounts, so what's stopping you from doing it right?!

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[–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 3 weeks ago

Something else that needs to be part of general user education is that user votes are also public information on Lemmy, Piefed, and the wider fediverse due to federation functionality.

[–] Zexks@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Lmao. "At this point" it has been like this since day one. Everypne seems to have forgotten this 90s gem: You can't delete stuff from the internet

[–] VanillaWasp@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Yes but there has been a cultural and technical shift on the internet. Your average AOL user was not out running witch hunts against people they ideologically oppose, you couldnt mass blast your shitter post to your 5m followers and change public opinion over night, You were not linked by your real name to your employer, your ssn address etc was not leaked 5x to sunday.

The landscape has changed "at this point".

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[–] WatDabney@lemmy.dbzer0.com 36 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Gotta love the irony of someone who baked proactive censorship of sites and automatic censorship of posters directly into his software complaining about somebody else's modding decisions...

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[–] ZWQbpkzl@hexbear.net 30 points 3 weeks ago

Unfortunately I think Rimu is just going to keep posting this bullshit and drown out the truth. Its been pretty clear to me he's been a wrecker for a while.

[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Finally, this whole drama was nonsense

[–] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 3 weeks ago

rimu is but hurt his BFFs at world keep getting called out for their shitty modding and this was the best he could do. =p

[–] RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip 21 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

I left lemmy because I didn't like the devs among other reasons now the piefed devs are being weirdos too.

[–] MysticMushroom1776@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Ironically the piefed devs are everything people said the Lemmy devs are. People were saying that Lemmy's developers were going to push opinionated and dangerous changes to the software, and piefed has done all that and more. Their lead developer is more opinionated than dessalines and nutomic combined.

[–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, I really dislike the head Lemmy dev, Dessaline's, political beliefs and the way they seem to run some of the communities they mod on .ml. They don't always seem to understand certain suggestions for usability improvements, and there have been times where development has been superbly slow on important features.

I truly think a big part of their motivation in making the software was to be able to create a place where their own controversial opinions couldn't be effectively censored while they maintained complete control over their own instance. I wish I could assume better motivations. But it's admittedly complete speculation.

All of that said, I've not seen them put any of their political beliefs into the software itself, and that is only earning more of my respect as time goes on.


I had a twinge of concern when Rimu implemented a really basic filter for trying to detect screenshots from 4chan, which would block them from being uploaded with an intentionally misleading error message. Should have followed my gut feeling.

There's no reason for that to be a direct platform level feature instead of there being a base of functionality for custom image handling functionality. Compression with stuff like imagemagick, hash check to prevent duplicate uploads, and "image feature" detection and handling code with that specific bugbear as the example "extension"/"detector"/etc.

Not as a hardcoded feature. Even just from a design standpoint that's not a great choice.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I truly think a big part of their motivation in making the software was to be able to create a place where their own controversial opinions couldn’t be effectively censored while they maintained complete control over their own instance. I wish I could assume better motivations. But it’s admittedly complete speculation.

You don’t need to speculate when it’s public knowledge. Reddit censored MLs so MLs made their own Reddit. They created Lemmy principally so that lemmygrad.ml could exist[^1], and secondarily so that anyone could do the same and the various instances could federate with each other—or not. That’s why they intentionally don’t bake politics into the software. They knew from the start that—if Lemmy were to survive at all—their own instance(s) would become less popular than liberal ones.

[^1]: Lemmy.ml is a niche instance they use to beta test releases.

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[–] Stanley_Pain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Nerds + Drama now and forever :(

It really gets exhausting.

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[–] whalebiologist@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 3 weeks ago

🤣 take note future mudslingers: anarchists keep their receipts.

[–] therewolftherecastle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

This is the third time this month alone that I've seen this Piefed clown try to stir shit in various communities. What the fuck is their problem?

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

They got incredibly salty that a random /0 mod called them a zionist in modlog and they've been on a vendetta ever since

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[–] Azzu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 3 weeks ago

That's why it's so important to check your own biases, be rational and skeptical. I mean the people reading Rimu's post.

It's incredibly easy to be convinced by some manifactured argument; if you want, you can present almost any kind of evidence both as supporting a conclusion or disproving it, just depending on how you word it or what you leave out.

Everyone has an agenda. Including this post :D

[–] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 3 weeks ago

snicker libs really digging deep to try and trash FAF.

[–] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 3 weeks ago

First time hearing this drama. Appreciate the db0 clarifying that LLMs aren't a apart of mod or admin work.

The Piefed developer can get fucked.

[–] confusedpuppy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 3 weeks ago

It's disappointing to see what's become of PieFed. I was hanging around in the Matrix channel for a while and it seemed like an alright place. I even helped improve the documentation at one point and made a theme too. This was all done under a different username so I'm well distanced from all this now.

Some drama happened a while ago with the Lemmy devs and people started taking an interest in PieFed. There were all these new moderators and instance owners in the matrix channel and things definitely started to feel different.

One of the bigger instance owners gave off some vibes I wasn't comfortable being around and everyone else was just quietly okay with it. I guess. I don't really know how to describe the feeling but I know that it was my cue to quietly leave.

I saw the signs in PieFed itself and the community developing around it so I'm not surprised. Just disappointed.

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

Excellent clarification

[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

that kolektiva thread is extremely frustrating if you're over here on the threadiverse side and know what's actually going on

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