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I remember getting roasted on here for not wanting these because "who would be held responsible if one of these ran into my car."
People were like "if you just want someone to be punished you should rethink your american tough on crime stance" and I said no, I just want to be paid for my shit when it destroys it.
"They will definitely do that" they said, "there's no way" they wouldn't have them take accountability they said.
Looks like I was right.
capitalists gonna capitalism. reminder that laws are for us plebs. not the owning classes.
If probability engines* aren't allowed to offer faster rides by exceeding the speed limit, how are the companies meant to stay competitive and innovate? The state's whole thing is "move fast and break things". /s
* and the occasional intervention from an underpaid remote worker in Bangladesh with 720p video at a 100ms ping and the cheapest video game controller
Since the units can't get points they should actually pay like double. All units should have a barcode that used so the ticket and fine can go through and get paid in under 24 hours.
I'm sure they won't abuse this intentionally
No, they'll just use it to murder people
Unless they find a way to save some dollars with this loophole.
Alternate headline: Money talks, allows immunity to traffic laws.
If this were true they wouldn't have enacted any legislation at all (which was the status quo before this). The next step should be to use the data gained from ticketing these robot taxis to determine the rate of infraction and hold the the company accountable when that legislation is ready. I. E. Corp has broken the law X number of times and each infraction equals a penalty, x number of penalties means revoking of license to operate robot taxi service in state etc.
We all know that fining corps isn't something that actually works because they just consider it part of their operating cost, so the goal should be to prevent them from operating altogether if their product can't adhere to traffic laws.
Also, I think perhaps it might be worth it to license these vehicles differently. A commercial license of some kind because individuals can't be held accountable (because either the people operating them or observing them aren't in the same country, or because there isn't a vehicle operator at all).
because individuals can't be held accountable
That's just laziness. There are individuals who can be held accountable.
Starting with the executives who signed off on these things being put on the road in the first place.
Forgive me, that wasn't the complete thought I assumed it was.
What I mean is that Liability in business is often spread across the company as an entity because there are usually a lot of people involved in the decision tree that leads to things like this.
You'd be holding more than one person liable if you were holding people liable at all. And generally if one person can be pointed to as at fault they are "the fall guy", taking the brunt of whatever consequences so that the company doesn't have to. Rarely do you get both options.
I didn't mean to imply that the people who are involved couldn't be held accountable.
You'd be holding more than one person liable if you were holding people liable at all
Sounds good to me.
Having some corporate abstraction shield the people who make irresponsible or dangerous choices may be beneficial to those decision makers, but it is very much not good for society.
We all know that fining corps isn't something that actually works because they just consider it part of their operating cost, so the goal should be to prevent them from operating altogether if their product can't adhere to traffic laws.
You could say the same thing about human, but that still works.
1: Make the fines big enough to matter, but without making then prohibitively big for small companies.
2: Too many fines result in revoking permission. This doesn't have to be on company level, the company could group the cars by model or something.
The numbers can be discussed, but this is the framework the legal system is used to, and I don't see what it wouldn't work, other than lobbyism.
You could say the same thing about human, but that still works.
Here's the thing. It demonstrably doesn't work because we don't do any of the things you listed. That's why parking tickets only work on poor people and rich people view them as just the fee to park where ever they want.
Which is exactly what I was alluding to but you seem to want to take it as if I have no earthly idea how to make it better when the point wasn't about fining them. The point is there's a better way and it starts with gathering data to use to basically revoke their license to operate their business and their taxis in the state. Because that's a better outcome altogether than a stupid fine. The money from the fine might enrich the state but it won't bring back someone's kid.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be cited. I'm not saying they shouldn't face repercussions. I'm not saying they aren't dangerous or that I think they should be allowed to do whatever they want with no consequences.
I'm saying there's a difference between what was happening vs what is happening now and I'm acknowledging that this difference isn't enough but it's not nothing.
They're currently breaking the law and not being held accountable. The threat of eventually being held accountable is a step in the right direction, but the only reason they're able to do this right now is due to money.
The fact that they weren't being ticketed before means that we don't even really know how bad these cars are, and yet they've been allowed to stay on roads with pedestrians and other cars.
Not exactly. They were breaking the law and not being held accountable. Now they're being held accountable but how they are being held to account is problematic and toothless. That's not the same thing and it's exactly what my comment was trying to highlight. There are ways that the law can progress to be more effective.
Needing to report incidents isn't being held accountable. They're not facing any consequences for breaking the law.
Think about how laws and legislation evolve over time.
Some legislation has a habit of giving the perpetrators who violate it enough rope to hang themselves. That's why I laid out what I said to include other steps they could take to amend or update the legislation.
A ban on self driving vehicles would be better, and we already know that Musk among others has been throwing money at keeping that from happening for ages.
Either way, if you can tell me why they'd bother to allow them to be ticketed rather than just not doing that like they already weren't, I'd love to be enlightened.
The problem comes to who’s at fault?
Is it the passenger riding? The car itself? The company that programmed it? The owner?
Personally, I agree, robotaxis should be yeeted out of existence if they can’t abide traffic laws- but a lot of them are being operated privately too.
They should’ve not been permitted at all until these questions were answered, and corporations should not have been allowed to comment.
Companies should get fined a minimum of 1% of gross profits per infraction
I mean, it's obviously the company. The issue is the government doesn't want to actually legislate and determine how you address issues where there is prison time and or licenses get revoked.
Its also not a problem, it's an abdication of responsibility. Either the government needs to take a stance or the cars shouldn't be on the road. Seems like instead the government is willing to risk our safety rather than take any firm stance.
I don't disagree. As the operator of the vehicle you as a regular person would be at held at fault. A commercially licensed driver would be held at fault and in some cases the company is held at fault depending on the infraction and their policy.
When a machine doesn't operate within the confines of the law, the fact is the company who owns and operates the machine is liable. So that's who should be held at fault.
car collision/ related laws often are very lenient in general.
Yea I get real tired of hearing the term car accident. Sure accidents can happen, but 99.99% of the time one or both parties in a collision weren't paying attention and crashes occurred because a shit driver made the wrong move. People get complacent because they can play bumper cars and have little consequence, I think people should be ticketed in accidents more often. For example the 16 screws in my left arm are because a company truck driver "accidentally" took a left over double yellows without waiting for traffic to clear. CLEAR traffic violation, but nah let's just chalk that up to a standard whoopsie daisy. Now home dudes gonna do the same thing in 3 months next time he gets impatient trying to make a turn.
i noticed a shift in my 20+ years as a firefighter- we use to say “mva” for motor vehicle accident. now we say “mvc” for “crash” etc. i wonder if someone tried to claim it was an accident, even the fd said so. 🤷♀️
Isn’t this proof that AI can only work if we lower standards?
The company must report the incident to the DMV within 72 hours, or 24 hours if the officer has designated the incident a priority because of “a clear or potential danger or risk of injury to others,” the regulations said.
Nothing says imminent danger like a 24-72 hour grace period to do something about it.
Yeah we know our car blasted around a school bus and killed three children, but you have to understand there is certain paperwork we need to file first.
Our lawyers thought of the children and made sure we were well insulated from wrongful death lawsuits.
I'm fine with laws offering no protection to me from robotaxis as long as the law offers them no protection from me.
Hahahahaha no. damage the robotaxis? straight to jail.
Some kid is gonna get killed and everyone will wonder how it happened
TBF kids are already getting killed by other cars and society deems it an acceptable loss for being able to take cars everywhere.
In 2023, there's been 12 fatalities of kids under 4 years old in Canada, and 48 fatalities between 5 and 14 years old. All ages, it's a total of nearly 2000 dead in a year in Canada alone for 2023.
When a kid dies in a pool we nearly ban them and strengthen regulations. Cities pay inspectors to make sure people have fences around their pool.
When a kid gets clipped by a fast moving cyclist it makes the news. Dangerous cyclists are roaming the streets at high speed, nearly killing children! What an outrage!
But when cars kill a few thousand people every year, one every 30 seconds on the planet, it's the price we have to pay for this convenience. We can't stop the world turning. Our economies would collapse without cars so we can't really impose any regulations on them. They're EsSeNtIAl.
Great, now even one fewer incentive for companies to right their wrongs.
As it they were ever botbered by this operational cost.
This is some bullshit will someone please think of the children
Sorry, best I can do is shoehorn age verification into phones, websites, and OSes.
We are thinking of the children, thats why we need to scan your face and see your drivers license if you want to see boobs.
They shouldn't be playing in traffic anyway. Not when theres boobs on the internet.
balloons filled with latex paint do a number on cameras. slash the tires while it can't see.
should be really easy to get a bunch of them together at the same time too.
it's like cow tipping but has positive impacts to the world.
bring some friends, make a night of it.
If you get pulled over just unbuckle quickly and hide in the back.
"oh hey officer, I was just napping. Did my robotaxi do something wrong?"
fuck cars.
Saw one try to turn left right in front of me when it had an unprotected turn. I didn't let it in and gave it the bird knowing full well there was no human inside driving to see it. Super cool to know that it won't face any punishment for similar errors in the future.
Come again?
So Robot Wars - Mad Max sponsored by GTA?
Sales of white Jaguar I-Paces have surged
This is DEI for robots. If you have to lower the standards to qualify; you don't.
Well, DEI is the only way minorities (including those more competent than aryan competitors) even get any jobs. Yes, it is that terrible.
It fucking works. They just hire the minimum amount of us, but at least those have a job.