it is impossible to be an ethical company (context) and exist within our system, is it friendlier to the end user then most others, then yes it is.
this post was submitted on 25 Apr 2026
70 points (91.7% liked)
No Stupid Questions
47939 readers
285 users here now
No such thing. Ask away!
!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.
All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.
Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.
If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.
Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.
If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here. This includes using AI responses and summaries.
Credits
Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!
The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
As can be expected, as far as a laptop company can be, sure?
Overall, realistically? no
There are no ethical large computer manufacturers. Framework, like its competitors, financially supports unethical people, projects, and governments, and there's no such thing as an end-to-end ethical supply chain right now.
People want Framework to be ethical because they champion repairability, and on a relative scale, you could do a lot worse. But that's also the problem. Most people buying a new MacBook or ThinkPad never think about ethics. Framework puts ethics front and center, then drops the ball the moment you dig deeper than repairability.
If you want to buy "ethically," your best option is used. The device was still made unethically, by a company that funded abhorrent causes, and the seller will likely reinvest your money into the very ecosystem you're trying to avoid. But at least you kept something out of a landfill a little longer, and put one more degree of Kevin Bacon between yourself and the worst of it.
To keep things in perspective, Framework is probably less unethical than most manufacturers, and they're doing more for repairability than most. And even Doug Forcett wasn't good enough for the Good Place, so you know... you have to draw your own lines.
the Good Place
Dang it, I've gotta finish that show... Forgot about it.
Well other than sending money and free laptops to a racist multi-millionaire and excusing it with a "big tent" approach when asked why the fuck they do that...
Yeah, the answer to "Is Framework ethical?" is simple, no they aren't. The answer to "Is Framework more ethical than all the Big Tech laptop manufacturers?" is a resounding yes though. Which is a sad state of affairs
Unless they've walked back their support of DHH, then they're actively supporting an alt right racist/transphobe
https://www.osnews.com/story/143520/in-bizarre-move-framework-embraces-deeply-extremist-views/
The support was forgiveable to me initially with the assunption that they didn't know but they doubled down on it and I can't forgive that. I like the company a lot but I'm not going to knowingly indirectly fund hate by buying their stuff.
It's really sad how right wing the tech industry is now where even the objectively left wing open source/right to repair/privacy space is dominated by bigots. Like even Proton's CEO is a MAGA
Re: Proton - my understanding of the situation is that they made a (blog) post endorsing one action by Trump (nominating a lady very competent in the tech space, I think specifically relating to privacy), which was blown out of proportion by ppl who want to paint with broad strokes.
IIRC, they even distanced themselves from trump within that post, or shortly thereafter in a social media post. It's been a while but unless I missed something after the blow up, I don't think they've done anything to endorse him
Edit: I couldn't find the original, but at least stumbled across a timeline. Anyways, I remember thinking at the time I can at least understand this position from his perspective. I'll leave it to other to decide https://techissuestoday.com/proton-ceo-responds-to-backlash-after-his-post-supporting-trump-selection/
Edit 2: I'm into it now. I'll let the Proton CEO's own words speak on his behalf (from link). Sorry for making this so long.
"First, while the X post was not intended to be a political statement, I can understand how it can be interpreted as such, and it therefore should not have been made. While we will not prohibit all employees from expressing personal political opinions publicly, it is something I will personally avoid in the future. I lean left on some issues, and right on other issues, but it doesn’t serve our mission to publicly debate this. It should be obvious, but I will say that it is a false equivalence to say that agreeing with Republicans on one specific issue (antitrust enforcement to protect small companies) is equal to endorsing the entire Republican party platform."
I am pretty sure it's just anti-privacy actors trying to sow discord and generate infighting in privacy communities, and the person your are replying to is either one of them or ate the propaganda.
Any cursory look at the Proton guy reveals he's a progressive who keeps donating to left-wing causes, girls education, pro-LGBT, pro-consumer. To try to paint him as MAGA for being glad about an objectively good thing the Trump admin once surprisingly did is just ridiculous, and obviously not done in good faith.
This was shitty, but my actual problem with Proton is their lean into crypto wallets and showing that they are willing to bend over for the police, which kinda make their entire differentiation as a “secure” platform entirely moot.
Are they "bending" more than what they are legally required to? Their model is that they cannot provide content if it was end-to-end encrypted, even if they were forced they just can't. If someone pays for their account with a credit card that's information they can be forced to give. I haven't heard that they have gone beyond that and willingly given information. I don't think we can blame a company for not breaking the laws of the country they operate in.
This is a dumb take. Proton wll not fight or defend their users at all. They had to backpedal on their privacy protections and change their advertising lies multiple times.
It is always blame the user as well. There a plenty of ways that they would never have to store this information on their servers. They choose not to do this. They can also push back against these government requests but they won't be because they are a honeypot for criminals and they know it.
Even offering that concession, which I don’t, that doesn’t excuse the crypto wallet.
I got the hell away from Proton when they started leaning heavily into AI and shitcoins. I don't believe they've changed course since?
No, you were right to get out. Always has been a shit company. Throwing money at corporations is not a solution to privacy.
Uh-oh queue the Protards coming to defend their shitty service. His shit ass comments aged like fine milk. Just goes to show how stupid some people are in areas they have no experience in. Trump is going to break up big tech, lol!
Proton literally follows the privacy laws like any company in that country. It is the equivalent of having licensed and bonded on the side of your work vehicle when it has always been a requirement. Advertising this is even illegal some jurisdictions.
The worst part is whenever Proton is exposed as having another shit policy the blame is always laid at the feet of the end users. "They should have known better!" Such a garbage company.
I think context matters here. There currently isn’t any outwardly unethical behavior on their behalf and they’re building products that are designed to be maintained and upgraded, which is a big step forward when you consider things like e-waste and protecting the environment. Those products still contain materials that through mining or producing, result in pollution and potentially underpaid labor in large factories.
I would say the scales tip to them being currently more ethical than competitors in the same space. That could change at any time and I’m sure there’s stuff we don’t know that some would frown upon.
Did they walk back their sponsorship of DHH?
https://www.osnews.com/story/143520/in-bizarre-move-framework-embraces-deeply-extremist-views/
Because supporting that bigot is outwardly unethical...
Meh, still better than virtually all other computer OEMs by net political harm done. I'll take one nutcase over companies sucking off a entire borderline fascist government.
The question was are they moral. They're not. The fact no one else is either doesn't excuse that
No ethical consumption under capitalism aside.
Morality can be viewed through multiple lenses, I would argue that in terms of generally trying to support FOSS & reducing e waste theybare acting far mote morally than anything akin to HP & DELL.
And I'd argue that positioning their company as the moral choice makes their decision to support bigots worse than if they'd never positioned themselves that way in the first place. Which makes them basically no different to HP or DELL.
Letting perfect be the enemy of good ngl
Nope. I'm not telling anyone to avoid Framework or anyone else.
But they're not the "ethical" choice. They're another shitty company doing shitty things that hurt people. That should be a factor in your purchasing decision, but it shouldn't be the whole of it, because it's pretty much impossible to exist without supporting companies like that in some way or another.
"Let’s ditch the superlatives and review David’s post objectively:"
Who is David?
"I’m speaking, of course, of DHH: Ruby on Rails creator David Heinemeier Hansson." From the article
What defines an ethical company?
In my opinion, Framework is more ethical that most in the industry. Think companies like Apple, HP, Dell, etc. who are generally quite anti-consumer. For example, Apple's parts pairing and closed ecosystem, HP's lockdown of their printers. There are plenty of more examples to look for, turns out humongous for-profit corporations driven by money like money go up more than happy consumers.
Whether Framework "ethical" outright I'm not sure. They support right-to-repair and interact with the community more. They share CAD files of their products so that people can make their own accessories and such, they are working with many Linux distros to improve compatibility, etc. I personally find the backwards compatibility of parts of their devices really impressive. So definitely, more ethical than most.
However, they, like a majority of companies, are not focused on improving working conditions in factories, they are not necessarily using fair materials, etc. Additionally, the support of Omarchy is problematic. In a nutshell, Omarchy is pretty much a preconfigured Arch that DHH likes. The controversy is that this DHH is an insane alt-right guy, anti-immigrant, transphobic, homophobic, white supremecist, all that. The direct support (particularly on social media) of Omarchy is seen as an endorsement of DHH, when you go to Omarchy's website, DHH's name is right there. This obviously isn't a good look for Framework, and they hammered in the idea that they are a "big tent", implying that they are okay with DHH's views. Point have also been made that Omarchy is a very new distribution with a small userbase.
Source I found in a quick search: https://gardinerbryant.com/the-omarchy-framework-thing/ (13th Oct 2025)
Note that Framework is not currently sponsoring Omarchy: https://frame.work/blog/framework-sponsorships (I am unsure whether they originally did, or if was just the social media promotion)
Other companies support their own fair share of far-right lunatics, but that doesn't make it ethical for Framework to do so of course.
edit:
TLDR: Framework is not ethical, but I would say it's more ethical than other companies due to their support for right-to-repair, interaction with the community, and transparency on their sponsorships. It's not a nice world out there, but Framework is one of the better ones.
Note that Framework is not currently sponsoring Omarchy
They do have Rails World on their list, which is an event run by DHH
That is true, I did not check that! At least Rails World isn't a solo project by DHH like Omarchy is, so much of the proceeds are not going towards DHH (but of course, some of it is unfortunately). It looks like Framework is sponsoring the event in part to secure a booth to showcase their devices and such.
I read another comment somewhere that pointed out that all of the other things they sponsor are much more relevant to them, e.g OS and hardware projects and events. It's weird that there's just the one that's focused on web development and it's the one run by DHH.
I have nothing more to add other than that I believe it's good that Framework has been transparent with their sponsorships. Compare this to other companies where there are all sorts of secret deals that are hidden under the rug.
The right question should be "Is it consumer friendly" And it is.
Doesn't exist. So no.
I'd say no for the reason that they are not a worker owned cooperative.
I don't think any company that essentially operates like a top-down, undemocratic dictatorship (which is how the vast majority of companies operate) can be considered ethical.
No, there's no such thing as a truey ethical company. Its only various shades of acceptable. Personally any company developing electronics, or working with computers is unethical by the nature of what is required to create them. With no expections. But it's an acceptable evil as there's no way to willfully work in the industry ethically at the moment. Framework at least tries to minimize the harm they cause but they still cause plenty of harm.
But it's entirely based on your own morality. If you must ask others if a company is ethical, then you do not out line what you define as ethical. Then you are too ignorant of your own morals.
You should sit down and go actually fucking learn what you deem ethical and do the research yourself on if a company is ethical. Or at least bring definitions to the table when you ask others.
Ethics and morals for the most part are a nuanced debate since vary rarely are things so black and white that you can condem people out right.
So the question then is. The actual fuck do you define as ethical?