this post was submitted on 22 Apr 2026
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Well, I can see how summarizing 1984 as ‘useless’ is a slight overreaction. If nothing else, 1984 at least serves as a model for how neoliberals misunderstand, oversimplify, or caricature almost all illiberal societies.

Nevertheless, what makes Animal Farm and 1984 so frustrating is the overwhelming number of adults who treat them as acceptable substitutes for actually studying history. George Orwell was neither a historian nor a political scientist, and he never even visited the U.S.S.R. As far as I know, he based his misunderstanding of the U.S.S.R. on the capitalist media’s newspapers, so his caricature thereof in 1984 is garbage in, garbage out. No-one should use his fiction as a means of understanding any society, but this is exactly what neoliberals and social democrats recommend.

Being an anarchist, I can’t recommend ‘banning’ any books, but eventually we shall live in a society that has no need to promote Animal Farm and 1984 to death, and institutions shall be promoting books that are more relevant and more useful for ordinary people; we would be better off if Orwell’s fiction were relegated to the bin of fringe literature rather than the mass-produced and widely recommended works that they are today.

Banning books is the act of sniveling fascists and if you support that or are indifferent to it, I have some bad news for you.

We’ve got a regular Kyle Broflovski on our hands, don’t we? What an insight. You don’t have to read much history to understand that while the Fascists did ban many books, book-banning is a phenomenon that occurred centuries before Benito Mussolini & alii were even born. Logically, this would also imply that those who prohibit Fascist literature are theirselves ‘sniveling fascists’, which is patent nonsense (even if I can agree that banning any literature is misguided at best).

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[–] Aradino@hexbear.net 47 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Every time people mention 1984 I think of Isaac Asimov's brutal review of it and Orwell. It's a very fun read.

https://www.newworker.org/ncptrory/1984.htm

By the time the book came out in 1949, the Cold War was at its height. The book therefore proved popular. It was almost a matter of patriotism in the West to buy it and talk about it, and perhaps even to read parts of it, although it is my opinion that more people bought it and talked about it than read it, for it is a dreadfully dull book - didactic, repetitious, and all but motionless.

Got his ass

In fact, so thoroughly has 1984-ophobia penetrated the consciousness of many who have not read the book and have no notion of what it contains, that one wonders what will happen to us after 31 December 1984. When New Year's Day of 1985 arrives and the United States is still in existence and facing very much the problems it faces today, how will we express our fears of whatever aspect of life fills us with apprehension? What new date can we invent to take the place of 1984?

Got their asses

He also turned left wing and became a socialist, fighting with the loyalists in Spain in the 1930s. There he found himself caught up in the sectarian struggles between the various left-wing factions, and since he believed in a gentlemanly English form of socialism, he was inevitably on the losing side. Opposed to him were passionate Spanish anarchists, syndicalists, and communists, who bitterly resented the fact that the necessities of fighting the Franco fascists got in the way of their fighting each other.

Got our asses tbh

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 34 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

He also turned left wing and became a socialist, fighting with the loyalists in Spain in the 1930s. There he found himself caught up in the sectarian struggles between the various left-wing factions, and since he believed in a gentlemanly English form of socialism, he was inevitably on the losing side. Opposed to him were passionate Spanish anarchists, syndicalists, and communists, who bitterly resented the fact that the necessities of fighting the Franco fascists got in the way of their fighting each other.

Holy shit Asimov was cooking here, I did not know he moved like this, 20/20 understanding goddamn

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 15 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

In the summary he writes at the end he explicitly states he believes that the world will go communist or civilisation will be destroyed.

To summarise, then: George Orwell in 1984 was, in my opinion, engaging in a private feud with Stalinism, rather that attempting to forecast the future. He did not have the science fictional knack of foreseeing a plausible future and, in actual fact, in almost all cases, the world of 1984 bears no relation to the real world of the 1980s.

The world may go communist, if not by 1984, then by some not very much later date; or it may see civilisation destroyed. If this happens, however, it will happen in a fashion quite different from that depicted in 1984 and if we try to prevent either eventuality by imagining that 1984 is accurate, then we will be defending ourselves against assaults from the wrong direction and we will lose.

The only takeaway that's possible from this summary is that he's saying Orwell is fighting on the wrong side with this book and that fighting communism is in essence bringing about the eventual destruction of civilisation. It's very clear and I see no other way to interpret it.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Rip now I've just gone and made a redundant comment by not reading the thread before also talking about this review lol

[–] Aradino@hexbear.net 4 points 2 weeks ago

It's a different quote and most people won't bother to read the whole thing anyway so it's still a good contribution

[–] la_tasalana_intissari_mata@hexbear.net 44 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)
[–] buckykat@hexbear.net 28 points 2 weeks ago

Including "proud Englishman" in that list is chefs-kiss

[–] Flinch@hexbear.net 39 points 2 weeks ago

Removed by mod

how ironic nineteeneightyfour

[–] GnastyGnuts@hexbear.net 37 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

An objection I've always had towards 1984, even when I was still a liberal, is that it's a really cartoonish depiction of a dystopia in which everything is just so effortful, that more boring dystopias that we encounter in real life are harder for people high on 1984 to actually recognize.

Basically how the dystopia in 1984 relies so much on active and constant effort to control and manipulate all information and perceptions of reality, vs how much shitty societies in real life do more to weaponize people's own passivity and incuriosity to get the job done for them.

[–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 27 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That’s why Brave New World feels so much more believable than 1984, much more effective to control a populace with giving them a wide array of feelies and soma to distract themselves than strong arm tactics.

BNW is also written much better, remember the Mustapha Mond speech, it's one of the scariest moments i ever read in a fiction book, how rational it sounds.

[–] happybadger@hexbear.net 17 points 2 weeks ago

I always considered that a reflection of his WW2 experience. Like we're seeing with the wars in Iran and Ukraine, there's so much effort put into denying every part of the basic reality. It must have been insufferable to read the UK news in 1940 when the country was facing starvation or invasion fresh on the heels of Dunkirk. Most of it is a generic surveillance state and some of it like Ingsoc is a cartoonish parody of generic bureaucratic states, but the spectacle reminded me a lot of the American wartime propaganda I'm more familiar with.

[–] xijinpingist@hexbear.net 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

He got the Two Minutes Hate right though. Seen SO much of that online.
People getting really, performatively angry for an audience. Usually about the passing issue of the day.

[–] Damarcusart@hexbear.net 5 points 2 weeks ago

He was really really good at understanding the fucked up parts of the capitalist society in which he lived and then just pointing at it and saying "that's socialism."

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 32 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Also, like, 1984 always described the capitalists more than the USSR. Orwell was basically projecting his criticisms of British society onto them presumably because he assumed; "well if it's so bad over here, it must be even worse over there!"

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Note how both the book itself and any discussion around it always comes with explanation that it is about pure evil socialism because what's in the book is just depicting capitalism, and it's increasingly accurate in essence if not the form. Which btw also makes him absolutely bad as author since we know what he wanted to say, but he conveyed opposite message.

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 25 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Orwell's 1984 is also based on his belief - based on the readings of trotskyite-to-neoconservative reactionary James Burnham Who synthesized a third way political system that would supplant Capitalism instead of socialism (no he doesn't reinvent fascism, he just reinvents Capitalism but dipped in Piranha solution, shaken around to slough off the outside sludge, battered in panko batter and deep fat fried in the oil of wintergreen, clove, and camphor and serves it as if he just invented the wheel in 2026) and Orwell ran with it by making his shitty book based off of a shitty theory that doesn't stand up to any sort of rigorous examination.

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 17 points 2 weeks ago

Orwell should probably be counted as a trot-to-neocon alongside all of the other trot-to-neocons that poisoned the u.s reactionaries with their world revolution nonsense

[–] happybadger@hexbear.net 22 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It's a fun little novel and the language is neat. It was just assigned reading when I was a child in a school that otherwise demonised socialism. It stopped being intellectually relevant when I grew up and could read non-fiction books that right-wingers weren't quizzing me on to make sure I agree with them.

Libs Read One Book For Adults Challenge

[–] hollowmines@hexbear.net 7 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I get why everyone is dumping on Orwell in here but 1. Homage to Catalonia rocks and 2. I instinctively recoil against the idea that a novel is "useless" for whatever reason. its use is to be read! if you have an issue with the readers, have at it.

[–] red_giant@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

The issue with Homage to Catalonia is that, after reading it, you’re left with the sense that the Soviet role in the civil war was to crush the “true revolutionaries” when the reality is that the only power willing to support the republicans was the Soviets and the main reason the republicans lost was the British strong-arming the French into remaining neutral.

He turns the communists into the enemy when they were, in fact, the only ally.

It’s typical faux-leftism that only supports revolutionaries who have been defeated. And, in the case of Homage to Catalonia, the POUM were twice defeated and thus twice as deserving of romanticism and praise in the eyes of bourgeois leftist Orwell.

He was a British aristocrat on tour. He didn’t spend his time fighting. He says himself he spent most of his time drinking wine and was based in Aragon far from the front and he left before the war came close. His only impact in Spain was to spin Soviet support for the struggle against fascism into a criticism of the USSR.

He criticizes “leftist infighting” by supporting exactly one faction against the united front. See him for who was. An aristocratic propagandist and this poisons all his works, just as his racism, anti-semitism, misogyny, colonialism, and practice ofremoved women poisons his works as well.

[–] hollowmines@hexbear.net -2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I didn't read it as or expect it to be a definitive read on the conflict, I expected a very readable and surely biased memoir from someone who was present for some events, and lucid enough to write about the experience of being shot in the neck. Not everything I read is a matter of strict political education, and why should it be?

[–] red_giant@hexbear.net 1 points 2 weeks ago

Why should a book by George Orwell about the Spanish Civil War be read politically? Is that really a question you’re asking?

[–] xijinpingist@hexbear.net 4 points 2 weeks ago

Down & Out in Paris and London and Burma Days were very informative and taught me much.

Fear of the mob is a superstitious fear. It is based on the idea that there is some mysterious, fundamental difference between rich and poor, as though they were two different races, like Negroes and white men. But in reality there is no such difference. The mass of the rich and the poor are differentiated by their incomes and nothing else, and the average millionaire is only the average dishwasher dressed in a new suit. Change places, and handy dandy, which is the justice, which is the thief? Everyone who has mixed on equal terms with the poor knows this quite well. But the trouble is that intelligent, cultivated people, the very people who might be expected to have liberal opinions, never do mix with the poor. For what do the majority of educated people know about poverty? In my copy of Villon's poems the editor has actually thought it necessary to explain the line ‘Ne pain ne voyent qu'aux fenestres’ by a footnote; so remote is even hunger from the educated man's experience.

From this ignorance a superstitious fear of the mob results quite naturally. The educated man pictures a horde of submen, wanting only a day's liberty to loot his house, burn his books, and set him to work minding a machine or sweeping out a lavatory. ‘Anything,’ he thinks, 'any injustice, sooner than let that mob loose.’ He does not see that since there is no difference between the mass of rich and poor, there is no question of setting the mob loose. The mob is in fact loose now, and — in the shape of rich men — is using its power to set up enormous treadmills of boredom, such as ‘smart’ hotels.

To sum up. A plongeur is a slave, and a wasted slave, doing stupid and largely unnecessary work. He is kept at work, ultimately, because of a vague feeling that he would be dangerous if he had leisure. And educated people, who should be on his side, acquiesce in the process, because they know nothing about him and consequently are afraid of him. I say this of the plongeur because it is his case I have been considering; it would apply equally to numberless other types of worker. These are only my own ideas about the basic facts of a plongeur's life, made without reference to immediate economic questions, and no doubt largely platitudes. I present them as a sample of the thoughts that are put into one's head by working in an hotel. Orwell did what we would today call poverty tourism, by voluntarily entering the working class and working in a hotel as a laborer, plongeur. Then he went to London and stayed in the houses of the poor, in which you were only allowed to stay one night. Thus they had to tramp to the next one. Following a path around England, constantly on the move.

[–] miz@hexbear.net 18 points 2 weeks ago
[–] corgiwithalaptop@hexbear.net 15 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I just said this a day or two ago, not sure about how I feel regarding bans overall, but we should be banning shit like The Turner Diaries and other nazi shit.

Amerikkka would never tho.

[–] xijinpingist@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Camp of the Saints was just banned by Amazon. The usual suspects are furious

[–] CupcakeOfSpice@hexbear.net 4 points 2 weeks ago

I think I saw something this morning saying it's been unbanned.

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 14 points 2 weeks ago

Feel indifference when someone bans Orwellslop? You are a literal nazi.

Acrively voting for a genocide? That's actually antifascist, and you are a nazi if you don't do it.

[–] princeofsin@hexbear.net 13 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I'm an idiot but reading a book written by aremoved isn't a good look? But what do I know when United States Of Pedophiles made aremoved their president not once but twice. I guess this is the modern western culture i keep hearing about.

[–] miz@hexbear.net 15 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)
[–] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] miz@hexbear.net 7 points 2 weeks ago

four and that's just counting Jefferson (reelected) and Trump (noncontiguous terms)

[–] Damarcusart@hexbear.net 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

This further confirms my theory that Orwell is taught more like religious dogma than a genuine bit of information or knowledge. These people can never articulate "why" Orwell is important beyond vague gestures about "authoritarianism" being bad. Like how a lot of religious dogma has ideas of something being "sinful" but never with an explanation for how or why this occurs, only that satan will try to trick you into authoritarianism with empty promises about your life getting better.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Most of them haven't actually read it. They have no information to work from to form any coherent statements so they have to fall back to the default popular knowledge.

Isaac Asimov wrote a review of 1984 and tore Orwell apart. Even that review is probably too long to get these liberals to read though, thankfully he wrote a summary at the end:

To summarise, then: George Orwell in 1984 was, in my opinion, engaging in a private feud with Stalinism, rather that attempting to forecast the future. He did not have the science fictional knack of foreseeing a plausible future and, in actual fact, in almost all cases, the world of 1984 bears no relation to the real world of the 1980s.

The world may go communist, if not by 1984, then by some not very much later date; or it may see civilisation destroyed. If this happens, however, it will happen in a fashion quite different from that depicted in 1984 and if we try to prevent either eventuality by imagining that 1984 is accurate, then we will be defending ourselves against assaults from the wrong direction and we will lose.

Asimov believed the world would either go communist or destroy civilisation, and therefore by feuding with it in the poor way Orwell's imagines he is just contributing to the destruction of civilisation.

[–] Damarcusart@hexbear.net 5 points 2 weeks ago

Most of them haven't actually read it.

Just like a lot of religious texts. People are told what to think and what to believe and are discouraged from actually analysing the sacred texts or making up their own mind about them.

And that review is great, glad to see a lot of people sharing it hear. Really dissects Orwell in a way most people who were raised to worship his work have never even thought of.

[–] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 10 points 2 weeks ago

Bonfire of the Inanities :kelly:

[–] PorkrollPosadist@hexbear.net 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Aradino beat me to it.

[–] cornishon@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 2 weeks ago

what makes Animal Farm and 1984 so frustrating is the overwhelming number of adults who treat them as acceptable substitutes for actually studying history

Many such cases

[–] Johnny_Arson@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago

Moreover to your point about not banning any books: Banning even if for good reasons adds to theor notoriety and can also be done for nefarious reasons even if the book deserves dirision. I have a suspicion that Mein Kampf is banned in US schools because of how much Hitler glazes the US.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

1984 is somewhat worse than you give it credit for, because it's based most proximately on his experience working for the BBC (and maybe elsewhere with British public media), where he worked as a propagandist during WW2.

I agree that the book shouldn't be banned generally, but honestly I'd consider banning it from schools on the grounds that a core element of the main plot is a creepy, misogynistic wish-fulfillment fantasy about Orwell getting to fuck a young woman as an old man, framed as the highest political activism (I'm not joking). idk, not something I'd really want to be putting in kids' heads. Animal Farm, though I hate it even more, does not have that problem, so I would not support its banning.

Neither deserve to be taught as one of only like 20 novels/novellas that a huge portion of the portion of the population will ever read, but that's another question.

[–] red_giant@hexbear.net 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Orwell served as a British colonial officer in Burma and then wrote Burmese Days, a book mostly about a British colonial officer in Burma repeatedlyremoved and sexually exploiting Burmese women.

Orwell worked as a propagandist for the BBC and then wrote a book about a British propagandist in a dystopian Britain.

Orwell sold out communists and homosexuals to the British government and then wrote Homage to Catalonia criticizing communists in Spain for selling out other communists.

[–] TankieTanuki@hexbear.net 5 points 2 weeks ago
[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 5 points 2 weeks ago

I'd be surprised if even 2% of the people in that thread have actually read it.