this post was submitted on 22 Mar 2026
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I just started learning Mandarin again with HelloChinese and it seems like a lot of the spoken example sentences are not following the written tones. Like the sentence “我说中文”. The speaker is pronouncing 文 as wèn instead of wén. I don’t have any experience speaking with tones, but I’m a musician with very good relative pitch and I feel like I ought to be able to tell whether a pitch is rising or falling, so this is confusing.

I like Mandarin. Based on my previous attempt and some videos I’ve seen explaining grammar rules and whatnot it seems to be a very logically structured language compared to English. But then in that same sentence from before, 说 and 中 are pronounced with different pitches despite both being the first tone. Which is fine, but what dictates that 中 is higher than 说? Does it matter that they’re about a tritone apart? What is the meaning of the relative pitch? While I’m confused about the above thing with the tones being mixed up, the way that pitches are chosen for the tones is absolutely fascinating and I’d love to read more about it if possible.

I know there’s a certain amount of “just do the work and stop asking questions before you’re ready for the answer” involved here, but this is just a lot of how I learn. I love jumping around and getting bogged down in theoretical stuff at the same time that I’m doing the more rote stuff. It makes it go down easier.

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[–] miz@hexbear.net 15 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

this video might help, covers why the standard tone chart isn't accurate, tone sandhi, and an interesting bit about how pitch is not truly necessary to distinguish tones

The SECRET to Perfect Mandarin Tone Pronunciation 🇨🇳 | Julesy

[–] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 1 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] KuroXppi@hexbear.net 4 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

But then in that same sentence from before, 说 and 中 are pronounced with different pitches despite both being the first tone. Which is fine, but what dictates that 中 is higher than 说?

Emphasis (word boundaries) dialect influences, idiosyncratic speech patterns.l, ease of speech

For example 出租汽车 the chuzu is a higher pitch (both first tone) and the tone of che is lower because it's 1) word boundary and 2) 'dragged down' by the qì fourth tone but still held flat.

Try to pronounce chuzu qiche with the chē at the same pitch as the chuzu and you may find it's kind of clunky/unnatural

I can't speak to the wèn of the woshuozhongwen sentence, but I can see that the wén is somewhat de-emphasised. Not a full fourth tone more like... it's the end of the sentence is kinda just falls off

[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 9 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Mandarin has sandhi, so the tones can be afected according to previous or posterior sillables. I so far focused mostly on writing/reading and didn't even try to memorize tones, just listening and imitation.

[–] MeetMeAtTheMovies@hexbear.net 6 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Oh that’s really neat. I’ll look it up and read a bit

[–] Inui@hexbear.net 4 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

RNAi is correct. For example, when you have several words in a row with 3rd tones, they change:

HelloChinese doesn't really tell you this and you may notice it marking you incorrect in some lessons on a specific word and switching the tone markers on you.

To add on, I am also learning, and the best advice I've gotten right now is 'stop thinking of tones as separate things'. As in, many people get caught up in learning "is that 2nd or 3rd tone?" to understandably try and correct their pronunciation. Maybe this won't make sense, but I've started to try and think of the tone as just "the pronunciation of the word", which is why getting the tone wrong when speaking to a native speaker is confusing. Whereas people learning it as a second language will rely more heavily on context clues from the rest of the sentence while not paying enough attention to the pronunciation of the word.

So for me, I'm trying to think of 是 / shì as a completely separate word from 师 / shī as in lǎoshī. Not as "shi", but with 4th tone or "shi" with 1st tone.

I think you're asking good questions though when it comes to grammar, since there's a lot of rules like that that aren't explained very well or at all by a lot of sources.

[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Perhaps also worth mentioning, even considering tone, any mono-syllable word pronunciation can correspond to two or more different characters, so context does 95% of the work for me when listening, and probably works the same for natives

[–] Inui@hexbear.net 2 points 4 hours ago

For sure, I'm not saying to ignore context entirely either. Just don't use it as an excuse not to get pronounciation correct first. Talking to other second language learners, I've met with several who will say things like "Wo shi meiguo ren" in a near-monotone when talking to other learners, as if they are not confident in their pronounciation and so lower their voice and de-emphasize the tones. Or they just do it because they know I am also not a native speaker. I know what they're saying based on context, but that isn't going to fly in more complex conversations when word choice can differ a lot more.