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Surzhyk: why Ukrainians are increasingly speaking a hybrid language that used to be a marker of rural backwardness (theconversation.com)

submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by lvxferre@mander.xyz to c/linguistics@mander.xyz

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Key points:

The word surzhyk (суржик) ['surʒek] in Ukrainian originally refers to a mix of grains, or a flour made with that mix. It's being used to refer to a "mixed" Ukrainian + Russian linguistic variety. Kind of like Spanglish, but more like Portuñol.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine shows people in central and eastern Ukraine using surzhyk more, and Russian less.
Acc. to the text the surzhyk being used nowadays is markedly different from the one used in the 30s, as if the mix was originally "some Ukrainian with lots of Russian" and nowadays "some Russian with lots of Ukrainian".
Attitudes towards surzhyk seem to be changing, too; from negative to positive.

Note: there's no way around politics, when it comes to language; it's an intrinsically political topic. However, I'd like to ask other users here to keep any potential discussion on-topic for this community. Also, please do not conflate populations with governments, OK?

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[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Personally, my take is that surzhyk is not a single variety. It's an umbrella term over multiple different varieties, grouped by origin: either Ukrainian with some Russian influence, or the opposite. With surzhyky from different areas being vastly different from each other.

And, if I had to take a guess, most surzhyky (surzhyks? How am I supposed to pluralise this in English?) of the 1930s were Ukrainian with heavy Russian interference, while the ones nowadays are the opposite. Roughly speaking, the "base" language being the one people are shifting from, and the superstrate being the one they're shifting to.

Some might argue those varieties are creoles; I think the label "creole" gets messy when dealing with varieties that have some mutual intelligibility, like Ukrainian and Russian (or Portuguese and Spanish). Because one of the main features of a creole is "gluing" features from both parent languages with local innovations, but they aren't required if there's mutual intelligibility and a lot of the grammar is shared.

[–] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Some might argue those varieties are creoles

I'm not a linguist, but I think surzhyky and portuñol are usually just considered code-mixing or code-switching, for the reasons you listed.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

When it comes to portuñol I'm pretty sure the ones I heard in Ciudad del Este (PY) and in Rivera (UY) are two different beasts:

CdE - mostly code-mixing, indeed. Fairly unstable, in one sentence a speaker says one thing and then the next sentence they use the equivalent in the other language.
Rivera - certainly not code-mixing. It's better described as a divergent Gaúcho Portuguese variety, with heavy Rioplatense Spanish influence. There is some internal variation, like /ṼC/ vs. /VnC/, but it already got its own rules, apart from both PT and ES.

I'm really not sure on surzhyk, though. I wonder if it's a similar situation, some being code-mixing and some being already their own "stable" varieties.

[–] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

In Uruguay, they have a dialect of Portuguese that is often called portunhol, but is distinct of what most Portuguese and Spanish speakers would call portuñol/portunhol, because it's a stable dialect. And Ciudad del Este might be a similar case.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 1 points 2 weeks ago

Ah. It's that dialect I'm talking about. I always heard people referring to it as "portunhol", at most "riverense".

One thing that caught my attention in that variety was people using [ʃ] for a few words both PT and ES would use [s]; for example

Riverense [ʃẽ.pɾe]~[ʃem.pɾe] "always"
Portuguese [sẽ.pɾe] ⟨sempre⟩
Spanish [sjem.pɾe] ⟨siempre⟩

And Ciudad del Este might be a similar case

Not really. In CdE it's mostly that quick-and-dirty mix while you're buying/selling stuff. The city is a commercial hotspot for Brazilians because it allows you to buy imported stuff without paying import taxes (they're outrageously high in Brazil).

[–] Mika@piefed.ca 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Vice versa actually. In soviet times many Ukrainians had to learn russian, thus it was russian with a mix of Ukrainian.

Modern days it's 2022 urge to drop russian, but people who didn't have much Ukrainian practice still use some russian words. But bad Ukrainian is better than good russian.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 1 points 2 weeks ago

Got it. It makes sense.