No Stupid Questions

Almost always yes, it is a scam. Theoretically, it’s a hedge against inflation, but in practice, it’s just grifters selling it to paranoid right wingers

The thing about the value of gold in a society is that it is only valued within the society. If society collapses, there will be no group or entity that could value it. You'd need to wait until people start rebuilding. But then you'd need to be in a position to shape how currency is decided on and minted. Unless you've kept your load of gold secret, it'll be hard to convince people to adopt gold as a currency without starting on more even ground.

It's a commodity that's widely used as a way to keep the value of a portfolio in case of inflation. Gold has a lot of utility but recently because of uncertainty about the US dollar central banks have been stocking up on gold.

Complete societal collapse is very unlikely and we have studied economics enough to the point where hyperinflation is avoidable.

For investors keeping some gold (10-20% of portfolio) can be very nice since it allows you to buy the dip and is inflation proof. On the other hand, gold can become a speculative asset so it's value can be inflated just like any other commodity. So in a way currently it's either a nice tool or a bubble (or scam as you call it).

Silver, used in solar panels, is also pretty good for same reasons.

So much FUD and complete misinformation here. Gold, first and foremost, is a store of value and a hedge against inflation. It's a terrible investment. That said, if you bought 10k worth of gold 5 years ago, you would now have 20k. Which is obviously a higher return than most savings products or some actual investments.

It's a hell of a lot safer than BTC and if society does collapse, it will absolutely retain its value.

There are a lot of delusional people in here posting about their personal shower-fantasies of what they would do in the apocalypse. You can safely discard all that. If it gets so bad you need guns and tools and... blacksmithing supplies? you are so utterly fucked that gold and bartering will be the last of your concerns. People will be fucking eating each other. You simply cannot run to the woods and start living off the land, you will starve and die without acres of ready land already producing food. Real-life isn't like a survival video game, there is no tech-tree that you can climb and start producing food.

Read some Cormac McCarthy for a more realistic view of the end of the world. (Then have a therapist on hand for the after-effects.)

For a financial collapse, gold would probably retain value, a society still needs something to base the value of its trading on, we can't just all carry around sacks of grain. How much value gold will retain is very hard to predict, but people have been using it for so long that it's already survived several widespread disasters and is still in use.

Owning land is better to store wealth, but gold is better when fleeing to wherever land ownership is still enforced.

Invest in land: they aren't making any more of it.

The only things that will have value when society collapses are food, water, shelter, off-grid power, ammunition, and weapons.

Look at the zoomed out 5 year chart for its price and you tell me.

$1,839 -> $4,217

Yeah but so is having any currency

I assume you’re talking about physical gold.

Yes, it’s generally a scam. Some middle man is going to take a cut of what it’s worth before you enter the market - and they’re almost always going to misrepresent it’s value, especially if it’s not in the form of a stamped bar. Then you basically have to store it and shlep it and secure it and keep it secret, which will further diminish profit. Then you have to sell it, presumably as part of your retirement plan…or leave it to somebody who’s going to lose even more of its value when they want to unload it inefficiently.

If you’re not wealthy in the first place it’s only worth investing in as a hobby…because you have to factor in the value of your time and subtract that from its value, as well.

As far as it being a hedge against the collapse of currency? Bad idea. Skills and land you can defend are going to be the only hedges against that. Even if it had value post collapse…it would just put a target on your head.

There was a video essay by Folding Ideas (From "the line goes up" fame) about a weird documentary narrated/hosted by Idris Elba, and If I am remembering it right it was basically a propaganda/ad film targeting people like peepers and that are skeptical of the government and such. So I believe there is at least a push to make gold more marketable and in fashion, like De beers did for diamonds.

I don't know if I am allowed to link to outside content (because the rule of no reposting outside content) but in any case it should be easy to find for anyone interested.

Lots of things can be used as currency. Gold was the OG because it is scarce, takes work to mine, is finite(ish), it doesn't tarnish or corrode in air or salt water, isn't attacked by acids except agua regia, meaning it doesn't degade over time. It's a really good medium for labor-value.

Problem is, it's also a useful metal now, in semiconductors and electronics, so now it is being 'consumed' by industry in a way that isn't readily recoverable except at product end of life, and even then it's not 100% recycled, probably more like 10%.

So the global supply increases due to work mining, decreases due to consumption as a commodity, and is still treated as a currency equivalent.

Solid gold is easy to store, and will survive calamities, bank collapses, fires, floods, ect where other intrinsic value items don't.

So it's a good investment if you believe that you will survive the deletion of society, AND you believe that it will be tradeable post-collapse. Or if you just treat it like a commodity.

But post-collapse, gold isn't intrinsically useful. In these events, other useful, consumable goods might be better for goods and labour exchange. In the early Australian colonies, there was no money, people bought, sold and got paid in rum.

Rum is a reasonable value holder, it can be preserved against degrading, it is 'fungible' and divisible in a way that gold coins arent.

Dried grains are a good currency too. Maize, wheat berries, etc, as long as you accept that your value will be contually consumed and replenished.

Whether a thing has value is largely determined by whether the society you end up in decides it has value.

The indigenous Australians would happily trade a gold nugget for rum or rope or steel tools, because their society had no use for gold, but did have use for steel.

Disclaimer: The only gold I own is in my phone and computer.

All investing is potentially a scam. That's why they warn you about securities trading.

In a societal collapse your best investment is between your ears. If you can build/grow/... things you don't need to worry about losing value.

When was the last complete societal collapse?

Gold is a good hedge against inflation. When was the last hyperinflation in your country?

Depends on your threat model. During speculative bubbles capital flows towards gainers no matter how crazy (NFTs anyone?). During corrections capital flows back towards commodities, and gold is .. er...the gold standard. It has a lot of industrial uses blah blah blah. Copper is also good for these purposes and is an interesting contrast.

Nobody says "if you can't touch it, you don't own it" for copper or oil or pork bellies. That's because that advice isn't about using gold as an inflation hedge or safe harbour in a bear market. That advice is predicated on compete monetary collapse and the use of gold as currency. If you don't live in a space where you can grow some of your own food, and have access to potable water from your own well I wouldn't worry to much about it. You will starve to death or die in the food riots so gold won't help anyways.

Depends on what you want to achieve.

It's a hedge against inflation. So in times of high inflation and economic uncertainty it will do well.

Keeping a small amount in a safe in case the world goes to shit, well only after you have a pile of guns, ammunution and canned food.

It's not a productive asset. If you buy stocks you'll probably be better off in the long run.

That being said your investment portfolio should not be only one kind of investment and gold should probably be a part of it eventually.

Generally speaking, precious metal commodities are a hedge investment; they aren't a primary investment themselves, but they're a hedge against a loss in value of other investments, like stocks or bonds. If you are investing in gold as a hedge against inflation wiping out stock market gains, then yeah, it's pretty solid. You probably don't want to hold on to it forever though; if you'd bought gold just prior to Carter taking office and the stagflation of the late 70s, you be pretty much break-even with things like index funds.

As far as total societal collapse, you would need to have the physical bullion, not just have precious metals in your investment portfolio. And even then, gold might not have a ton of value in a subsistence society. People might trade for it, but if I had food to trade, I don't think I'd be trading for gold, since I can't eat gold. The people that will clean up in a subsistence environment? The Amish.

Obligatory not an economist, only know some basics about investing (and quite lazy about it)

I always thought that gold is just a rather unique commodity that people can also have the option of holding physically (not that it's advised to do so). Professional investors invest in just about anything as long as there is a potential return on investment, like typical stocks and bonds, gold and silver, housing/land, art, literal truckloads of food... frankly gold isn't even remotely the weirdest or "scammiest" on this list

As for more regular people, I do have a suspicion a lot of con-artists and/or people with suspicious intents heavily promote gold investing though. Also some libertarian types have a weird... fantasy? of total societal collapse with them rising to the top post-collapse, which I do not quite understand. But I'd presume gold would be attractive to those types since gold has been used as a means of transaction for a long time in human history