this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2025
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Washington’s Putin-appeasing plan for peace in Ukraine has failed, but many heard death knell sounded for European reliance on US protection

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[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 30 points 1 month ago (3 children)

"Europe stands alone" that's a pretty big crowd to be standing alone in...

[–] oce@jlai.lu 14 points 1 month ago

EU has a 100 millions of people more than the USA, 43 millions in Ukraine.

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Its not about the people but the amount of weapons available.

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Our standing armies outnumber Russia 4 to 1 at peace. Without counting the UK.

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 3 points 1 month ago

Well maybe they need to start walking instead of standing around.

[–] Damage@feddit.it 4 points 1 month ago

It's not about the amount of weapons but the natural resources and the population's indoctrination towards sacrifice

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 1 points 1 month ago

It's about political willpower and the liberal tendency towards complacency.

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

The newspaper has to try to get its clicks. This is why they keep repeating the same stories over and over again, acting each time like it's the first that anyone has ever heard of the situation...

img

Ironically with the Fediverse crowd, they would do far better to be genuine.

[–] CouldntCareBear@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You didn't read the article did you? It's really good and not like your description in the slightest.

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online 2 points 1 month ago

Well I was focusing chiefly on the title but the article itself isn't entirely unlike my description either.

Once again blind-sided by Trump, European leaders read paragraph after paragraph of the US proposal with a mixture of disbelief and panic.

It is not like Trump won the election yesterday, or that he was President for 4 years previously. Feel free to be shocked... but (hopefully) not that shocked.

Then the article ends with a very pointed:

But Europe has vowed to get its act together so often. Inertia, not Russia, may have become its own worst enemy.

Which seems somehow familiar...

[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Can you actually read?

[–] atro_city@fedia.io 11 points 1 month ago

Europe's west, after 4 years, is finally waking up to the fact that Russia is not just waging war against Ukraine but in fact preparing another war on the rest of Europe. The digital attacks have moved on to outright sabotage via arson and bombing as well as drones in major EU cities. Only now are they beginning to understand the extent of the problems they face because they didn't prepare for Trump either.

If Western Europe doesn't switch to a war economy to start producing weapons, artillery, and drones en masse, training soldiers and preparing civilians for war (both mental, physical and digital), they will be caught nearly unprepared for a Russian invasion and a capitulation of Ukraine.

If Ukraine wins the war with the dismal contributions of Europe, we will be very very lucky to have bet on Ukraine's ferocity and Russia's inability to keep a war economy alive long enough.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

As an outside observer: the problem seems to be footgunning-by-vote?

Take the recent, supposedly uncontroversial measure to use seized Russian assets for stuff: the whole thing was torpedoed by some technicality from Belgium. And that’s constantly what I hear from Euro news; Hungary vetoes this, France torches buildings over taxes hikes for military, Germany is up to stuff, some transient right wing prime minister rejects that, no one wants to stick their necks out to save some industry. Things like that.

Y’all need a federal system, bad. Obviously learn from the mistakes of the US, Russia and such, but still.

[–] PixellatedDave@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Europe should have weaned ourselves off America decades ago.

[–] CouldntCareBear@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The transatlantic alliance has served the interests of its members very well for decades, right up until this administration.

[–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago

2017-2018 should have been the wakeup call, considering Trump was openly treating NATO as a protection racket in his first term. The EU didn't take it seriously enough at the time, and now we're paying the price for trying to ride it out instead of preparing from that point.

[–] tiredofsametab@fedia.io 2 points 1 month ago

Again/still/it really took you this long??