this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2025
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Socialism

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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic and constructive discussion from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

A certain knowledge of socialism is expected, if you are new to/interested in socialism, please visit c/Socialism101 before participating here. Socialism101 will gladly help you by answering questions, providing resources etc.

Memes go in c/Lefty Memes

Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, upvoting good contributions and downvoting those of low-quality!

Rules

1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith discussion is enforced here.

Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism

2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such,

as well as condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavour.

3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.

That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).

4. No Bigotry.

The only dangerous minority is the rich.

5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.

We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.

(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Xenial Xerus" when answering question 2)

6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.

Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.

7. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:

(This is not a definitive list, the spirit of the other rules still counts! Eventual duplicates with other rules are for emphasis.)

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[–] Eq0@literature.cafe 90 points 1 week ago (21 children)

I strongly believe (it’s a belief, not a fact), that appropriately controlled capitalism would be a good system. Then I look at all EU countries and the same problem pops up all the time: rich people get richer and richer. There should be a wealth cap of sorts. It’s unethical that some can have anything and everything while almost everyone else can’t.

Let’s then not talk about the control of the news/media that obviously follows from people accumulating wealth like literary dragons… or the whole lobbying industry…

So, I believe, but I also see all manners of counter-proofs all around me and I see no real solutions.

[–] cabbage@piefed.social 72 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think you might believe in market economy but not capitalism. Market economy is an economic system, capitalism is an ideology.

[–] nexguy@lemmy.world 29 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Capitalism is really the private ownership of production within a market economy. I don't think that commenter was against private ownership, just more oversight in a capitalist system... which I think is workable.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It's more specific even than private ownership. It's about allowing businesses to incorporate as entities with limited liability so that multiple owners can pool capital while shedding risk.

If every shareholder of, say, Nestlé, were criminally liable for every criminal act that Nestlé committed, it would obviously be impossible for such an entity to exist.

The main issue with capitalism is the way it facilitates scale without accountability.

[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I think more oversight is a temporary solution. End stage capitalism is inevitable.

[–] RamenJunkie@midwest.social 9 points 1 week ago

Tax anyome with over 10million in "worth" at 100%.

If theynare caught chesting with loop holes, take it all and put them in jail for harming others like you would assault or murder.

[–] JargonWagon@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

You could say that about any government system though. Every system will encounter someone or a group of people looking to corrupt and give gains to themselves. The endless pursuit of power and greed is what needs to be controlled, and as long as that's not controlled and seal tight, every government will eventually fall.

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[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 20 points 1 week ago (1 children)

There should be a wealth cap of sorts

Some sort of NG+

Once you reach a certain amount of wealth, you get a parade and then you give up all your wealth, get a new identity, and start over.

Maybe if you go over a certain wealth amount, you're entered into Open PvP mode.

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[–] Seefoo@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

In software we say there are people problems and tool problems. You generally can't solve one type with the other.

I think this applies here. Almost all economic models have positives, but given a chance individuals will abuse it to skew things in their favor.

I dont really see a good solution out there unfortunately, so I settle on the one that has worked in the past which is regulation.

[–] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

At the end of the day, I think that the issue with this sentiment is that in some sense, control over something and ownership of that thing are virtually the same thing. If you have "appropriately controlled capitalism", then you have someone other than the capitalists ultimately deciding what the implements that drive the economy are used for and who the dividends are given to. If that someone is just some individual or small group controlling it to their own interests, then you just have an authoritarian system (and frankly, its not really different from a capitalist system that has become sufficiently consolidated for the number of rich owners controlling things to be very small anyway, since those guys will also run things to their own interest). If theres some kind of collective/societal-wide control mechanism, and its actually sufficient in its influence to prevent the abuses of capitalism, then it isnt really capitalism at all anymore because those private "owners" just have a legal fiction of ownership. At which point, their position is doubly useless, so there is little benefit to keeping up that illusion.

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[–] for_some_delta@beehaw.org 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

As a thought experiment, let's say we both have a paper route. We are not in direct competition, but I am unable to expand my route because doing so would be treading on your route. I stop being able to do my route. Anyone could pick up my route, but you are in a position to gain more from my route than someone new to the business. Thereby, you pick up an outsized share of the route. This crowds both new and existing potential route owners.

The example is only about capital accumulation and state involvement. There are other problematic issues such as wage labor as addressed by the comic.

[–] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 week ago

But capitalism expect constantly growing capital value right? How is that possible?

[–] yakko@feddit.uk 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Just about any economic system, if it was run perfectly, would be mostly fine.

The problem is people behave unwisely.

[–] becausechemistry@lemy.lol 11 points 1 week ago

It was so unwise of me to be born into the group of people without generational wealth

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[–] liuther9@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It is like you join new MMORPG and get fuked by 1kkk lvl players where you barely can get to lvl 10

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[–] qevlarr@lemmy.world 69 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

This is the artist: https://newsie.social/@royaards

His cartoons are amazing and he's not afraid to call a spade a spade. Often Dutch politics, but also some international topics

[–] hakunawazo@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

I like how P. the carpenter is depicted shirtless.

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 22 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Nationalism is the same, with the guy at the top shouting "watch out, those foreign lads are going to steal your crumbs!"

[–] 1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

that's me falling because of my BPD

[–] CluckN@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)
[–] Squirrelanna@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 1 week ago

Being poor disorder.

[–] 1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 week ago

borderline personality disorder

[–] nutbutter@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 week ago

Still one of the best episodes

[–] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 week ago

Reminds me of the comics from the early 1900s!

[–] ICCrawler@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

JFC that's apt.

[–] ValarieLenin@midwest.social 6 points 1 week ago

Gd does this one slap.

[–] Phegan@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

It will trickle down any day now, bro

[–] BilSabab@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

that's hyperrealist.

[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Never before in my life have I ever seen more accurate depiction of trickle down economics.

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