this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2025
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And by clone, I don't mean the suggestions google gives of stuff like yu yu hakusho and such; Dragon ball had a world of humans, animal people, vampires, demons and unexplained weird races (basically it felt like whatever occurred to Toriyama to draw, he drew); it had people in low tech areas living and interacting with people in super high tech areas; parts of the world felt remote and unconnected even despite modern + advanced tech existing, such that you had towns that would be plagued by an ogre (Oolong in disguise) or other strange beings. You could be strolling and reach a gateway into the demon realm; the world had more dinosaurs than it did modern creatures. The main character was also able to turn into a giant ape. It also gave us Bulma, a character who upon first meeting Goku, a child, tried to shoot him in the head. Roshi's turtle could literally talk and no one treated it like it was the strangest thing ever.

Going further: DBZ introduced aliens into the setting, and then brought in space travel and introduced a galactic empire, and it gave us the super saiyan transformation and the concept of power levels; it gave us androids as a new force within the world, and time travel; it also gave us the fusion technique; it also gave us the afterlife as a new major location within the setting; it introduced the Kais as well. The movies, which were not canon, had such a gigantic and expansive and 'anything goes' setting to work with that they were able to just freely introduce some of the strangest and most fun beings such as Janemba and the giant monster of (can't remember which movie). It also gave us the hyperbolic time chamber.

And DBS showed us the series could suck

Most shows today try to be 'hard' fiction; basically the races are all set, the empires and the locations are all set, everything that happens is reasonable and nothing can go off the rails; even anime that tries to give itself large leeway always inevitably limits itself majorly.

The dragon ball universe is just such a 'everything and the kitchen sink' setting that truly no other show can match it; Jojo's bizarre adventure comes a little close (time travel, inhuman stand users, aliens, ghosts, British people), but even JJBA is very limited.

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[–] Llituro@hexbear.net 17 points 4 months ago

One Piece is the only other thing I could come up with really. There are half-giant half-fishman in one piece, very much just what oda felt like drawing in that way. Also the huge disparities in tech. Nothing quite as diverse as dragon ball but still wide-ranging more than most else.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I wouldn't say they're quite the same scope or the exact same type of weirdness, but Space Dandy and Blood Battle Blockade are pretty weird (especially Space Dandy). I do appreciate Dandadan's "yokai vs aliens" bit, which reminds me a little of what you're talking about, mainly thanks to the yokai and curses, which can be pretty varied. Obviously all of these series have other criticisms you can also make, but that's not the topic at hand.

Early Hunter x Hunter had facets of what you're talking about, sometimes significantly, though that decreased drastically as it went on, since it has "York New City" and GPS but also an inhabited island where there's a basically-mythical fish that is somehow both hopelessly elusive despite modern technology but exists in a very definite location and is just a flesh-and-blood fish that happens to be really big. Also shapeshifting fox people just exist, and so does whatever silly but wildly dangerous animal that happens to occur to Togashi (but again, these get sidelined completely unless you want to count Chimera Ants or the funny creatures on Greed Island).

I think a lot of series tended to have more mysterious or evocative or whimsical settings but moved away from it later on. It's easy to forget that even Naruto (which became the symbol of boring world-building) had a much more mysterious and varied setting early on. Gaara's sand demon was originally literally just a big spirit that happened to exist, but then later on it got folded into being the "One-Tails" to be part of a unified cosmology of "Tailed Beasts" for the sake of the "Ten Tails" plot. It's worth noting that this mirrors how Goku used to be much more inexplicable but then got turned into Saiyan Lore, though that's not as egregious because it doesn't flatten different concepts together like the Tailed Beast thing does. Also, can you even imagine a plot in Naruto that centers on a capitalist fucking with mundane infrastructure like the Bridge Arc has, and that being the central issue in a mortal conflict? There's not even a prophecy or reincarnation or anything! It's literally just hitmen fighting over a bridge due to competing economic interests, but the hitmen have magic to do the fighting with.

idk, I'm the kind of dweeb who prefers harder fiction, but that should still leave room for bizarre mysteries. Things being reasonable only needs to mean there's an absence of contradiction, not that everything is given an explanation. I think the issue isn't hard fiction itself but the need to have elaborate and elaborated-upon "lore" for every little detail to put in "data books" or somehow also merchandise and use as grist for more volumes of slop. Also the constant need for escalation, of course (DBZ's power levels should be marked as a poison for most of their tenure), prevents anything from being that much bigger than the protagonist by the end, or at least completely encompassed in the conflicts of the plot rather than something that exists for itself and for some thematic or stylistic purpose.

I think Harry Potter was always trash, but I think it's a good example here of things being whimsical and arbitrary but then becoming over-elaborated upon due to market demands.

[–] Nacarbac@hexbear.net 6 points 4 months ago

Blood Battle Blockade Holy shit, someone else has seen that.

I think Harry Potter was always trash, but I think it's a good example here of things being whimsical and arbitrary but then becoming over-elaborated upon due to market demands.

Yeah. When it was just "throwing half-remembered things from folklore and popular fantasy in together, maybe change the names a little" it seemed more cohesive than when you then try to explain how this utter nonsense makes sense. You just act like it makes sense, and our brains will follow suit.

In TV land, Buffy did it well enough IIRC. It just had the monster of the week that could casually stop time, they get stabbed, everyone moves on. Same with Star Trek, nobody goes back to bother the Guardian of Forever, that'd be rude.

Fringe ended up trying to explain how the big global conspiracy revolves around the cast's interpersonal drama. This was dumb and boring.

[–] Carl@hexbear.net 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

things being whimsical and arbitrary but then becoming over-elaborated upon due to market demands.

I think modern fandom is to blame for this shift. Rowling was at one time lauded as an author who was very connected with her fandom - or at least more connected to her fandom than was the norm previously, where Star Trek's creators had once tried to sue fanfiction out of existence and everybody else just pretended that the fans didn't exist.

But connection with the fandom inevitably taints the work that created the fandom in the first place. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but one of the effects is definitely hearing people ask all sorts of lore questions all the time and wanting to answer those questions.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 1 points 4 months ago

I am going to repeat that this is a market failure. There's nothing wrong with people asking lore questions or theorizing or discussing the implications of things, it can be interesting or at least fun. The issue is trying to pander to them by giving answers to those questions when giving such answers is inappropriate to the work, which can come from many things but I think it's hard to deny that making money by pleasing certain segments of fans and giving them more slop is a major force.

There probably is also something to be said of the personal pathology of wanting to submerge yourself into a fake world to forget the real one, but here I will again blame capitalism, because a democratic society that is oriented toward common benefit and gives people more political agency and education while not squeezing them quite as hard for labor value or treating them like shit for bigoted reasons will naturally reduce people's desire to reject the world and their own lives.

[–] schlongjohnson@hexbear.net 10 points 4 months ago

the nerds won, and they all want lore books

[–] Leon_Grotsky@hexbear.net 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Terry Pratchet's books have alot of whimsy and colliding themes, although it's not a direct 1:1 to what you're describing.

[–] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 4 points 4 months ago

Terry Pratchet is doing it on purpose and I think that's the biggest difference.

[–] Wmill@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago

I'm with this post tbh, db being all over the place in what stories you'd see was fun. Mystical to sci-fi to alternative realities time line stuff man I'm for all that. I did watch Diana and while I was there for some of the animations idk didn't really pull me in like dragon ball did

[–] Chronographs@lemmy.zip 6 points 4 months ago

Sounds like you missed out on DAIMA

[–] Speaker@hexbear.net 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Anyone who thinks DBS is bad has not watched the Tournament of Power arc while incredibly stoned, and I'll stand by that.

[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 3 points 4 months ago

I was about to get mad till I read the second half of your comment, fair enough lol

[–] SchillMenaker@hexbear.net 4 points 4 months ago

I like how you jump straight to Super being terrible because it implies that GT doesn't even exist. Bravo.

[–] juniper@hexbear.net 4 points 4 months ago

Dragon Ball does mix magic and tech well. Reminds me of Shadowrun and Arcanum in that way. The mish mash of everything still feels cohesive

[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

'everything and the kitchen sink' setting

this is one piece (except its also cohesive and makes sense as a unified world with history outside of the protagonist, rather than JUST an artist putting in stuff he thought would be fun. Oda absolutely does a fuckload of that, but its disarming and can often come back around 600 episodes later and turn out to have always been plot relevant and very interesting if you had noticed it as more than just a joke)

there's a million islands, on some of them it rains lightning, on some of them its the stone age, on some of them up is down, or its an island of queer and trans people (who are also revolutionaries plotting to overthrow the world government)

[–] hello_hello@hexbear.net 2 points 4 months ago

I think it really has to do with Toriyama's incredible imagination and unique style. The things in DB just seem to "click" together and it really is Toriyama's great artwork and attention to detail that can get overlooked (I know super eyepatch wolf has great videos on this).

However, I personally found the Buu saga to be where the series started losing a bit of focus.

DBS can only really be enjoyed as slop, which it succeeds immensely at.

[–] Ilixtze@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Have you tried "Ranking of kings"? I remember it had that everything but the kitchen sink approach but applied to a fantasy universe instead of martial arts tropes. And it had that Cutesy style thing going on of the first Dragon ball.

[–] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 1 points 4 months ago

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