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162

Indonesian protesters won? Apparently looting lawmakers houses work (hexbear.net)

submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by micnd90@hexbear.net to c/news@hexbear.net

33 comments fedilink hide all child comments

https://archive.is/KEbh5

President Prabowo Subianto of Indonesia said on Sunday that the country’s House of Representatives had agreed to some policy changes that protesters across the country had been demanding over a week of demonstrations.

Thousands of protesters in several major Indonesian cities have been rallying since Monday in response to the country’s increasing cost of living and rising unemployment rate. Demonstrators demanded that the government cancel the high monthly housing allowances that lawmakers received, which many in the country see as lavish.

Mr. Prabowo’s announcement came after rioters on Sunday directed their rage at the homes of lawmakers and government officials, ransacking, vandalizing and looting the properties.

I'm not an expert in Indonesian politics, but it is kind of funny. A month ago, the only reason the protesters made international news was they adapted the One Piece pirate flag. Now they came true with their promise, looted the houses of lawmakers lol, and the ruling class was immediately rattled. If only we could loot Nancy Pelosi's ice cream fridge

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[–] SmithrunHills@hexbear.net 52 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

Meanwhile western liberals tut and wag their fingers about "thug violence and looting" or whatever other forms of fearmongering rhetoric they've adopted and think changing their online PFPs will do anything to rattle the upper classes while blaming literally any form of disruptive action

Edit: In fact, Indonesian protestors witness one of their own getting executed by fascist cops and retaliate. Western libs would still be crying about "decorum" if their own cops shot and killed protestors- hell, they might even blame the protestors for getting in the way.

[–] SnakeEyes@hexbear.net 24 points 4 months ago

This happens here too, the same dog shit, you are either a lib or an adventurist, the only true praxis is dog piling or offering critical support (upbear a comment)

[–] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 18 points 4 months ago

Edit: In fact, Indonesian protestors witness one of their own getting executed by fascist cops and retaliate. Western libs would still be crying about "decorum" if their own cops shot and killed protestors- hell, they might even blame the protestors for getting in the way.

they shot that lady who's getting military honors at the capitol thing and all the hogs backed down

[–] into_highest_invite@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 4 months ago

at 50501 it's their own marshals shooting and killing the protestors

[–] Eternal192@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 4 months ago (2 children)

There will always be more of us than them and if goddamn Indonesia managed it we in our "advanced" countries should be able to do the same and if we go after their "hard earned" assets then they'll learn their lesson, at least for a little while...

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It's more difficult in the imperial core because even just the NYPD has more resources than nearly every military on earth.

[+] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 28 points 4 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

[deleted]

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 19 points 4 months ago

The objective conditions of the US have almost no relationship to the objective conditions of China during its revolutionary period. This is obvious. If the analysis ends there then its not very complete. The objective conditions of tsarist Russia were also highly unique and not equatable to China's without making broad and sweeping generalizations...

That's also obvious. That still doesn't explain the conditions of the US in anyway.

There is something to be said about comfort and the role it plays in the suppressing revolutionary spirit and class conciseness. However, that also doesnt fully explaine the issue. It also dismisses the long history of snuffing out truely revolutionary figures in American history.

The Soviets were not giving up comfort for revolution. Revolutionary China wasn't giving up comfort to start a civil war. These places if anything lacked comfort in mass quantities. The quantitative accumulation of suffering engendered a qualitative shift in the receptiveness of their respective working classes to a revolutionary movement.

The USA as a settler colonial project, one of the largest settler colonial projects, which has dominated the world both militarily and ideologically, for more then a century, isnt lacking a revolutionary energy due to people watching Netflix, its because the economic and social relations havent deteriorated to the point that it impacts all fasets of the settler existence...

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 14 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yeah you're right, 18 intelligence agencies, six branches of the US military, 18,000 Law Enforcement agencies and the most sophisticated media indoctrination apparatus in human history simply has no bearing on the left's ability to build concrete forces of opposition

The western left simply doesn't have the will to power, brilliant

[–] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 15 points 4 months ago (2 children)

The problem with the Western left is worse than what you’re describing: they haven’t even tried, so everything that you’re saying is simply conjecture. They’re not at step one, they are at step zero.

And people are accusing me of being a doomer on the site lol.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

What's step one? What does that entail?

[–] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Read Mao: Analysis of the Classes in Chinese Society, 1925

Who are our enemies? Who are our friends? This is a question of the first importance for the revolution.

The basic reason why all previous revolutionary struggles in China achieved so little was their failure to unite with real friends in order to attack real enemies. A revolutionary party is the guide of the masses, and no revolution ever succeeds when the revolutionary party leads them astray.

The American left doesn’t even have the most basic framework for a strategy. Start by having an actual strategy to take power, then maybe you would be taken seriously.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Vague posting about 1925 Mao isn't exactly what I had in mind when I asked those questions

[+] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If you believe simply transplanting the organizational strategies (which you didn't even bother outlining) of communists from 1925 warlord era China is how the western "left" overcomes the combined might of the various armed forces of the most powerful empire in history, then quite frankly you're not serious or a materialist

Stop posturing and explain your work

[–] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I never said transplanting. Theory is not about rote memorization. Marxism-Leninism is a scientific approach and theories are tools to help you analyze the specific material and historical conditions and formulate the strategies forward.

Mao himself used Marx and Lenin together with plenty of historical references to devise his class analysis in China. These are the essential reading materials to help you get started.

I hope you don’t get blinded by your Westerner’s arrogance (don’t worry, it’s not personal and I’ve had many Western leftists talked to me like that and I’m used to it already) and accept that Mao has something to teach you about the movement you wanted to build in America.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

So you think you know Mao, fine let's test that

Identify the primary contradictions of American society in 2025 and what specific corrections does a revolutionary party require to sucesssfully apply the mass line?

Outline what talking points the political line of this party will be composed of?

How will this party leverage the contradictions and it's correct application of the mass line to overcome the unified martial might of the American state?

How will this state counter COINTELPRO measures and maintain organizational cohesion?

[–] into_highest_invite@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

why do you expect a random-ass foreigner on hexbear to do your homework for you? these are questions that require careful thinking by people who have direct experience with the conditions in question. you won't find a good answer to any of these questions on the internet. organize. please.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

these are questions that require careful thinking by people who have direct experience with the conditions in question

Precisely, which is why I find xiaohongshu's takes on the subject inappropriate and without basis

I don't pretend to have all the answers to those questions, but I know enough to realize vagueposting about Mao online doesn't come close to the answer

organize. please.

lmao I know no one on this site is talking up to me about organizing considering the insults and bullshit I've gotten over it

[–] into_highest_invite@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

you won't find the answers to those questions in an electoral campaign either. i find zohran charismatic too but come on. i dont know why you're getting so defensive over XHS's largely correct basic analysis

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

you won't find the answers to those questions in an electoral campaign either

You sure about that, a socialist becoming mayor of New York sounds a path toward an answer to me

XHS's largely correct basic analysis

Correct? No.

Basic? Absolutely.

[–] into_highest_invite@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 4 months ago

You sure about that, a socialist becoming mayor of New York sounds a path toward an answer to me

in what way and by what method?

Correct? No.

Basic? Absolutely.

if you don't see the rampant treatlerism in even the left in the west idk what to say

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 5 points 4 months ago

Nobody here is stating that we cannot, only why we have not. This is basic ass material analysis friend.

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Nobody is accusing you of being a doomer, you're just completely misrepresenting what people are saying to you and coming up with strawman arguments. Like you are literally in this thread downplaying and minimizing the fact that every radical movement in the US has been brutally suppressed and massacred. And not even just the radical ones but just college students protesting the Vietnam war. You are also minimizing the fact that the US police state is far more sophisticated and developed than places like Indonesia. Again this is not an excuse simply the basic material analysis you accuse us of lacking. Your posts here and previously accusing China of being "neoliberal" smack of armchair analysis by someone with no actual skin in the game.

[–] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

no actual skin in the game.

Yeah, we’re here today because hundreds of thousands of people already died fighting for the cause. China is socialist today precisely because our forefathers did not give up despite being close to total annihilation.

I’m not minimizing the oppressive state apparatus in the US. I am saying that claiming so betrays a lack of strategy to confront them. And if you don’t have a strategy, how do you think you’re ever going to win?

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 6 points 4 months ago

Again you are projecting something onto me. Nowhere did I say we have no strategy, nowhere did I say any of the shit you are making a strawman out of. I am simply stating the fact that the conditions in the US are fundamentally different from that in Indonesia and you pretending otherwise is antimaterialist and a bad faith argument. Jesus fuckin christ the fact an anarchist has to explain this to you is very fucking funny.

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 13 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I didn't say it's impossible just that the conditions are significantly different and on top of that Americans are far more comfortable.

You can't just write off that the forces of repression in the US are far far better equipped than those in Indonesia. That's just terribly bad faith arguing.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 4 months ago

You know how they always say "write to your representatives"? Some Brits apparently got police night raids after they wrote to their representatives against genocide in Gaza.

[–] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 24 points 4 months ago

Buying Jeni's brand ice cream is breaking BDS, stealing someone else's is not.

[–] jack@hexbear.net 19 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Is there a good outcome here long term? I'm obviously quite concerned about a potential color revolution further entrenching neocolonial systems. Are there working class organizations or a vanguard party playing a leading role here?

[–] Goblinmancer@hexbear.net 21 points 4 months ago

There is a labour party kind of but its not a huge influence considering they are not large enough to enter parliament and their leadership spends 50% of time appeasing the current president while endorsing the labor protests.

Honestly im kinda glad that foreign press coverage is low cuz that means less likely actual western interference is happening right now which would make thingw worse. That being said the situation is still frustating because the government especially Prabowo seems to really want to go back to Soeharto days of military rule but everyone to seems to be washed these days so every six months or so Indonesia the government attempts to pass a shitty regulation, police brutality happens which escalates things further, the government then half assed their opportunity to go full on military regime so they pass a slightly less shitty regulation which pass on as the new status quo.

[–] Carl@hexbear.net 18 points 4 months ago

After watching the latest Historia Civilis video, I'm prepared to say that burning down rich people's houses definitely works, at least when a full revolution isn't on the table.

[–] NuraShiny@hexbear.net 15 points 4 months ago

Getting the goods gets the goods.

[–] mortemtyrannis@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

But but but protesting never works!!!!

Fox News told me so.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I heard from NYC that violent protesting never works. It needs to be nonviolent and as nonintrusive as possible to influence our lawmakers to make progressive changes, any century now!