this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2025
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[–] RedStamp@piefed.social 58 points 6 days ago (2 children)

There's a couple of things wrong here

  • Shelob wasn't killed by Sam (as stated by another user). She was wounded greatly, but definitely not mortally, and she retreated back into her caves to heal
  • Ungoliant (the mother of all spiders, including Shelob) did not eat "the original sun and moon". She drank the light of the two trees which provided light to Arda before the sun and moon, causing them to rot and die.
  • The two trees weren't the original sun and moon. Before the two trees, there were the two lamps which stood on or near the poles of Arda and were the original lights of the world. I don't think it's fair to call either the lamps or the trees iterations of the sun and moon since the idea of a day-night cycle didn't exist prior to the sun and moon, at least in how we think of it. During the age of the two lamps (the Spring of Arda), both lamps shone constantly (no transition for time of day). During the age of the two trees, the trees would bloom throughout the day on a cycle, alternating which one was in full bloom. This is closer to day and night, but the trees shone so brightly that dark night never existed. Plus, the trees blooms mingled twice a day, essentially creating two "noons" per day
[–] egrets@lemmy.world 27 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Just because your comment was – though accurate and relevant – perhaps implicitly a little dismissive of Sam's accomplishment in repelling her and seriously wounding her, here's how she's described in the books:

But still she was there, who was there before Sauron, and before the first stone of Barad-dûr; and she served none but herself, drinking the blood of Elves and Men, bloated and grown fat with endless brooding on her feasts, weaving webs of shadow; for all living things were her food, and her vomit darkness.

[–] RedStamp@piefed.social 9 points 5 days ago

That's a very good point. Sam's achievement shouldn't be understated, as he is the first and last mention of any harm coming to Shelob. Beren did pass through Shelob's birthplace in the first age as he traveled through Ered Gorgoroth (he was the only one of the children of Ilúvatar to do so), and I wonder if he crossed paths with her, as she was the final and mightiest of Ungoliant's spawn and therefore must have had a place of dominance amongst the other great spiders there.

Imagine being a creature born of an ever yawning abyss, living for eons; and possibly the second mortal to evade your maw is not Beren, greatest of men, but rather Samwise, the humblest of the children of Ilúvatar, and not only did he evade her grasp, he wounded her and stole her finest meal in what was probably hundreds of years. Sam was truly one of the most valiant souls to ever walk Arda

[–] Krauerking@lemy.lol 1 points 5 days ago

Yeah but the sun and the moon arent the sun and the moon but the last remaining fruits of the trees right? Cast out so that they not get destroyed with a guardian each?

So technically the trees basically are the original sun and moon even if not the first light.
I'm not super knowledgeable on these specific religious texts.

[–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 38 points 6 days ago (1 children)

He fought her off which is impressive but her death was never confirmed.

[–] BeefandSquints@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I feel like it is said that she went back to recover for an unknown number of eons.

[–] CitizenKong@lemmy.world 34 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Developing a phobia against diminuitive gardeners.

[–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 12 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Which is only natural and good.

[–] Narauko@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago

Indeed, it's only a phobia if it's irrational.

[–] SalamenceFury@lemmy.world 24 points 6 days ago

Honestly the lack of reaction to Gandalf giving a wide eyed description of what that guy fought against is funnier than the act itself.

[–] Lumidaub@feddit.org 13 points 6 days ago

Be still, my shipper heart.

She was also a hot goth chick according to WB Games.

Tried to put her in a stew, he did