this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2025
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[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 67 points 4 days ago (2 children)

You fucking shit, vagrancy was outlawed in places like the USSR and modern China, but, housing was given out at free to low cost for those vulnerable, hence those "commie blocs" that are oh so scary. Unlike Stalin's progressive laws Trump just wants to jail the homeless...WITHOUT providing them with housing first stalin-stressed

[–] vovchik_ilich@hexbear.net 26 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

hence those "commie blocs" that are oh so scary

In my hometown in central Spain I've been gentrified out of being able to even afford a comically small flat (40m² for 250k€). I'd kill to afford a small khruschyovka near my family...

[–] anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Damn, who's gentrifying central Spain?

[–] vovchik_ilich@hexbear.net 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Short answer: Francisco Franco and continuing trends during capitalism

Long answer: Under fascism, Spain developed an extremely centralized model, in which a few big cities (Madrid, Barcelona, Sevilla, Valencia, Bilbao, Donosti, Málaga and a few others) get all the economic activity. The roads, railways, hospitals, schools, universities, etc, were built to service preferentially these big cities, in particular Madrid (the service and political capital) with the highway network of the country being radially developed around Madrid, highways A1 to A6 connecting Madrid with 6 ends of the Iberian Peninsula.

This trend, which originally came as a centrally planned choice during fascism, has been maintained through inaction and inertia during capitalism, and it has led to the massive populating of Madrid and its surroundings turning it into a metropolitan area of 6+mn inhabitants in a country with just 47mn. The result is that business only opens up in Madrid and a few other privileged cities around the coast of Spain, leasing the doughnut inbetween to be a massively depopulated area, comparable to e.g. arctic areas of Scandinavian countries, while Madrid itself bloats. People continuously migrate to Madrid for the job opportunities at rates not supported by housing construction projects especially since the 2008 bubble burst. The result is the gentrification of the vast majority of Madrid and its periphery, with housing and rent prices skyrocketing, in my area about +13% only in the last year.

The lack of state investment in infrastructure or outright job creation in the so-called "España vaciada", or "emptied-out Spain", leads to people being essentially forced to become economic migrants within their own country and to all life together in increasingly sardine-can apartments as housing prices go up and people are forced into being roommates at 30+ years of age. Right now the situation is such that a secondary school teacher in Madrid makes about 1800€ a month, and rent prices are around 25€/m², so that a meager 40m² flat, which is smaller than many ofnthe the 1950s khruschyovki built in the USSR, will cost a teacher more than half their salary.

Centralization in and out of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, it can be quite an efficient tool both economically and environmentally. Flats and densely urbanized areas are really much better than suburban sprawl, and having a hospital and a university cover hundreds of thousands of people has a lot of advantages. But Madrid is overdone, and there are a lot of interesting provinces completely hollowed out of their population just because business is by design more efficient in Madrid. There could be many more smaller densely packed cities all over Castilla y León and Castilla-La Mancha with ~500k inhabitants which would revitalize the regions and maintain a lot of the culture that's being lost to the hollowing out of the regions.

[–] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Looks like post-1991 Russia (and most other former Soviet republics) literally copied this policy, only with Moscow in place of Madrid. Your descriptions are very familiar.

[–] vovchik_ilich@hexbear.net 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's quite interesting, I noticed the parallels but I never actually discussed it. Is there anywhere I can read on the numbers of people who moved from rural areas or otherwise less-populated cities in Russia to Moscow because of centralization?

[–] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I think I saw somewhere some statistical tables on population dynamics of different cities and towns, but I don't remember, where I saw it. I'll try to find it again (or maybe compile some tables myself based on publically available data).

The easiest approach is probably to look at Moscow's population. For example, there lived 9 017 415 in 1991 and 13 274 285 in 2025.

[–] vovchik_ilich@hexbear.net 2 points 1 day ago

That's a good piece of data, I'll look into the evolution of the Moscow population over the decades and its metropolitan area. Thanks a lot, comrade <3

[–] CupcakeOfSpice@hexbear.net 29 points 4 days ago (4 children)

Also wasn't vagrancy already illegal at least in places in the US? I thought this was already a thing, but Trump just wanted his name associated with it?

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 41 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

It's been illegal in basically all modernized states and their colonies for a very long time. The exact definitions and status vary by place and time, but some form of it is basically universal in those states.

The idea that the USSR was more hostile to homeless people than a place like the US at the same time is completely unfounded and revisionist, because exactly the opposite was true for reasons the other user stated. In the US, the nicest reception a vagrant might get is to be threatened away, with the common alternative of being thrown in jail and, less commonly though it still happened, just being beaten, sometimes to death, if the cops are feeling frisky. Socialist states generally were more interested in getting people housed so they could operate as productive members of society because most vagrants don't actually want to be vagrants, though it was probably pretty intolerant to the small minority of people who for various reasons found living in conditions consistent with "vagrancy" to be desirable.

[–] Sithlorddahlia@hexbear.net 35 points 4 days ago

There was a Supreme Court ruling either last year or two years ago criminalizing vagrancy. The governor of California and I think the governor of New York were the first ones to take advantage of the ruling. There's videos of Gavin Newsom destroying homeless encampment with his barehands.

[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 19 points 4 days ago

It is mostly illegal afaik

[–] combat_brandonism@hexbear.net 3 points 3 days ago

To add to @Sithlorddahlia@hexbear.net's point, for a few decades there vagrancy was only illegal if there was a place you could forcibly relocate the unhoused to. The Grant's Pass decision made it fully illegal again.

[–] Wakmrow@hexbear.net 57 points 4 days ago

What are we a bunch of Asians

[–] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 27 points 4 days ago

pretends it's about crime

So like every crime bill cuz they're created by the prison lobby

[–] alexei_1917@hexbear.net 20 points 4 days ago

When will Americans stop deciding everything they don't like is Stalinism?

[–] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 23 points 4 days ago

At what point will the US public realize that long dead people are significantly less dangerous than the people who are alive and doing all the bad things today

[–] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 19 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

TechDirt always had an utopian-libertarian bent, but it didn't used to be quite so smug and fucking brain-dead back in the day.

I have no idea why it's just doing terrible political reporting unrelated to tech now either.

[–] nothx@hexbear.net 19 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Techdirt

Stick to tech or dirt… whatever you do.

[–] jack@hexbear.net 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

incredible how far the internet's foremost pedology website has fallen

[–] nothx@hexbear.net 3 points 3 days ago
[–] Meltyheartlove@hexbear.net 6 points 3 days ago
[–] rando895@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Well.... I guess they won't be homeless? I think this is just the version of help that boosts the GDP the most. Its too bad they didn't write a bipartisan bill where not only do they lock up the homeless, but they make it illegal to use the word homeless and instead replace it with something fun like "outside enthusiasts", or people who are homephobic.

[–] huf@hexbear.net 1 points 2 days ago

"internal migrants"