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Wary Democratic establishment keeping New York's Mamdani at arm's length (www.axios.com)
submitted 1 week ago by xc2215x@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 49 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Here's what the DNC chair (the literal Democratic establishment) is actually saying about Mamdani:

Amna Nawaz:

What do you take away from Zohran Mamdani’s New York City mayoral Democratic primary win? Are there lessons there for the party or the races?

Ken Martin:

Well, first, it was a brilliant campaign. And there’s a lot of lessons.

One is, he campaigned for something. And this is a critical piece. We can’t just be in a perpetual state of resisting Donald Trump. Of course, we have to resist Donald Trump. There’s no doubt about it for all the reasons we just talked about. But we also have to give people a sense of what we’re for, what the Democratic Party is fighting for, and what we would do if they put us back in power.

And that’s really critical. And I think that’s one of the lessons from Mamdani’s campaign, is that he focused on affordability. He focused on a message that was resonant with voters, and he campaigned for something, not against other people or against other things. He campaigned on a vision of how he was going to make New York City a better place to live.

I think that’s one of the lessons. The other lessons, of course, is the tactics he used to get his message out, both a very aggressive in-person campaigning, meeting voters where they’re at, and then also in those digital spaces, using very creative messaging to cut through the noise and to get to voters in an inexpensive but authentic way.

There’s a lot to learn from that campaign, and I’m excited to learn more.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/dnc-chair-on-the-path-to-winning-back-voters-and-lessons-democrats-can-learn-from-mamdani

Please don't let billionaires trick you into disengaging from the party now that billionaires aren't in control of it.

[–] ccunning@lemmy.world 26 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Please don't let billionaires trick you into disengaging from the party now that billionaires aren't in control of it.

(Don’t bury the lede)

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

Say that first and peoples eye glaze over...

People really really really don't want to be told they fell for propaganda. And lots will stop reading immediately to reply that they didn't.

Tack it on at the end and the only people who read that far will take it to heart instead of taking it as an insult.

I'm just scared by the time I get everyone on board with the new DNC it'll flip again, seems to be the way shit goes.

[–] DrFistington@lemmy.world 38 points 1 week ago

God forbid they support a candidate who's actually popular with democratic voters...

[–] VivianRixia@piefed.social 24 points 1 week ago

"Vote blue no matter who", you hypocrites.

[–] ileftreddit@piefed.social 20 points 1 week ago

Motherfucker WON THE PRIMARY, he is the DEMOCRATIC PARTY CANDIDATE. Like fuck off “establishment” democrats the fucking establishment is Fascist

[–] krox@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 week ago

Liberalism is just thinly veiled conservatism, when a true leftist emerges the "progressive" party always shows its true face. You can never truly be a progressive party if you exclusively serve the oligarchy while telling the working class you actually support them.

I voted blue in the last election purely because I saw the danger of trump not because the candidates represented my ideas.

Fuck that not again, my vote can be earned though ideological alignment, no more "well at least they aren't the opponent" bullshit. Be goddamn progressive or don't get votes (at least mine).

[–] Bonesince1997@lemmy.world -4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Why support the party when they don't support their nominee? I mean, I know ultimately why it's a must, but there must be punishment for the establishment.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

The party is supporting him for fucks sake...

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/dnc-chair-on-the-path-to-winning-back-voters-and-lessons-democrats-can-learn-from-mamdani

Stop treating random shitty neoliberals as "the party" when their wing was just kicked out of the DNC.

The people you want to "punish" were voted out of leadership in the last DNC election, by the voting members of the DNC....

8 months ago I'd be right beside you saying the same thing, but that already happened 6 months ago.

Like, how do so many people pretend to care about this stuff but just don't have any fucking idea what's happening?

Edit:

I know I sounded frustrated, but there's no reason to pile down votes on OP. My frustration is really with MSM media ignoring it.

Because of that, lots of people are unaware of the recent (and seriously historic, this has been 50 years in the making, 80 depending on when you start the clock).

And the wealthy will fight tooth and nail to prevent the people from solidifying their grasp on the Dem party again. Lying and misrepresenting events via the news organization they have all bought up isn't the worse they're going to do, if we can't handle this we won't be able to handle the real fuckery in the next presidential primary. The DNC will stay fair, so the wealthy will do everything they can to depress Dem primary turnout.

Now more than ever people need to take initiative and pay attention.

When someone isn't, and they get called out; upvote that shit so others see it.

[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

The party is supporting him for fucks sake...

It's good to see that Ken Martin isn't attacking Mamdani, but Schumer and Jefferies are refusing to endorse him. You can't say the party is supporting Mamdani when its two highest ranking members, both representatives from Mamdani's city, are withholding their endorsement.

Stop treating random shitty neoliberals as "the party" when their wing was just kicked out of the DNC.

The people you want to "punish" were voted out of leadership in the last DNC election, by the voting members of the DNC....

I'm really struggling to understand why you believe this. The party just kicked Davie Hogg out of leadership for threatening entrenched power, and Ken Martin isn't exactly fighting the neoliberal wing of the party either. One of the main differences between him and Ben Wikler, his main opponent for DNC chair, is that Martin wanted to continue taking money from, "good billionaires." Even in the interview you shared, Martin goes out of his way to defend centrist and even conservative Democrats:

You win by bringing people into your coalition. We have conservative Democrats. We have centrist Democrats. We have labor progressives like me, and we have this new brand of Democrat, which is the leftist.

The neoliberal wing of the party is on the back foot right now, but they haven't been kicked out. Many of them are trying to stage a comeback with Project 2029 and the Abundance Agenda, and plenty voting DNC members will support them. The fight for control of the party isn't over; it's barely started.

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think the problem is the way political parties are structured in the US. At the end of the day the thing that actually matters with a party is how its members behave in their respective offices. It's how senators and congressmen vote, what bills the president champions and vetoes. For party officers people judge by what they can see and that's mostly which candidates are receiving support and which aren't.

So what are people seeing? They're seeing the same politicians in office today as 6 months ago, voting the same way they always have, and many prominent Democrat politicians attacking Mamdani. Sure they can't have changed who's in office without an election happening, but that's kind of the point, until that happens those people are the DNC to most people. In order to change that perception those politicians would need to be publicly kicked out of the party. Until people no longer see "Senator X (D) from Y" making headlines they are the DNC to most people.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Until people no longer see “Senator X (D) from Y” making headlines they are the DNC to most people.

This is so important I erased everything else I had typed...

We will not see billionaire owned media side with the current DNC or the people

We can not wait for something we know won't happen.

It's why I spend so much time explaining this same thing over and over again. We have to tell each other instead of hoping a billionaire will tell us how to get rid of billionaires.

[–] Auntievenim@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I respect your efforts and understand you are doing this in good faith with a belief that change can in fact come from within the democratic party but I'm going to tell you that the democratic party is, foundationally, a capitalist, imperialist political project. You will never direct them away from the worst of their crimes because that is fundamentally what they exist to protect. No matter what you believe may change within the party leadership et al the party proper cannot and will not become what you are envisioning.

The platform you believe in is actually already the green party platform (if anyone would have bothered reading it) and I'd argue moving democratic party voters to the greens is a more viable strategy to achieve your aims than trying to force the democratic party itself to completely reject and invert its core ideology.

In my opinion we need to be doing much more than trying to organize behind electoral parties, but if thats what you believe is the solution then I want you to actually have the best chance to succeed in your goals. That pathway would be to invigorate the green party nationally and using that platform as a rallying call for the "democrats" who you believe are just waiting and hoping and fighting tirelessly for a socialist/in-any-way-left-leaning democratic party.

The dnc at this point should dissolve, allow all these "centrist and conservative democrats" to declare themselves republicans already, and actually give a space for some kind of even vaguely left party in america to take its place. The greens are the party you think the democrats should be, and I'd bet if you argued for them you'd have a whole lot more people who would be receptive and even give you a blank slate as far as their perception of the greens which you can help shape by being a representative of progressive empathy based politics. It saves you a ton of strife and headache while doing basically twice as much to expedite your desire political outcomes. There you will also have the benefit of not having to rebuild the party in your image, because the influx of support would be so large the new members would basically be able to lead the party in whatever direction they saw fit.

Genuinely. I'm trying to do more grassroots community organizing but if youre trying to do electoral politics within the current political climate you're making your job much harder trying to convince both the dnc and just regular people that the democratic party will ever be different. At least consider splitting your efforts between both parties and see which one seems more responsive and interested in your ideas.

Not trying to bring down your efforts, I'm not even saying this article isn't evidence of some minor reflection in the party, I just want to help you avoid fighting these battles over the issue and give another potential outlet for your work. I believe you have good political instincts and want whats best for people, and I want you to have the best chance at achieving your goals expeditiously.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

but I’m going to tell you that the democratic party is, foundationally, a capitalist, imperialist political project. You will never direct them away from the worst of their crimes because that is fundamentally what they exist to protect. No matter what you believe may change within the party leadership et al the party proper cannot and will not become what you are envisioning.

There's ~400 people that vote for chair, and if a Dem be ones president they just vote for who the president said to.

That means if Ken lets a fair primary and AOC runs...

Shed likely pick the next chair, then the next cuz you know she'd get re-elected.

That's almost a decade. During which time some of those ~400 are going to be replaced and while slow it's been trending left and this would accelerate it.

But as long as a good D keeps winning, they can keep naming chairs, and thus control of the entire political apparatus

The dnc at this point should dissolve

This is the absolute worst time since FDR's super majorities to dissolve the party. Before we can do that we need to change the system that gives so much power to the parties.

The party is a weapon and we've finally got it by the handle and the pointy end aimed at the shitty people.

We can't break it when we're literally fighting fascism and parties are insanely powerful.

First we squash the modern Republican party, then when we have the overwhelming supermajority under a D, we can change the system.

We can't skip the part where parties aren't necessary before dismantling our own party. And to do that we need a progressive super majority.

It's gonna take a couple elections.

[–] Auntievenim@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Again I respect your optimism but hanging your hat on AOC becoming president and doing anything to change the party is patently disconnected from reality. I dont think youre grappling with the core issues within the democratic party, and need to accept that your perception of "good" democrats are in reality corporatist progressives with no intent on creating any sort of positive change. They are entrenched in power, and their goals are to further entrench their power.

AOC has proven herself to be the exact same partisan dem as anyone else in congress. Bernie before her was an opportunist and the dnc used him in the 2016 primary to be able to run a "socialist" for president and then have him drop out and go "socialism says Hillary Clinton is a-ok!" So all the progressives and actually principled political masses would be sheep herded into the democratic party to be strangled and completely disengaged from political action. I can share some videos with you about the structure and purpose of the party including its "left" wing if you want to seriously engage with the historical analysis and what the party actually stands for. There's no home for you there bro, I'm trying to save you from yourself. This will kill you if you let it.

Genuinely take a single day to go and participate in a green party meeting in your area. Give yourself the freedom to decide who actually represents your vision for the future today. If you think its worse than the dems and they're even less willing to be receptive to you and your ideas then by all means go back to stumping for the party that has openly despised you and everyone you align with for our entire lives. I think you could at least do both things, and see which one bears fruit first.

Again, not trying to be mean or derisive I just genuinely dont believe that fighting for this is good for your mental health. Spread your cards out so that you dont have a complete depersonalisation after the party takes ten years from you and continues funding genocides and wars for imperial extraction of foreign resources. If not greens find dsa or something in your local area. Just go see how something else feels and compare it to this breathless defense of a trillion dollar entrenched systemic evil. You can advocate for better from the dnc while also having no illusions about the actual odds of that happening and simultaneously doing a higher percentage action.

I appreciate the opportunity to talk candidly about this, and I hope youre not taking these comments as attacks on you or your character. You sound like you care and I dont want someone like you to be taken advantage of. You have a drive to create real change and I want your efforts to be directed somewhere that your energy will actually result in real world outcomes instead of being fought against within a party which does not intend to represent you. I hope this finds you well, and wish you the best of luck on whatever you decide to pursue. Just giving some options for you.