this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2025
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Do these people believe in their own propaganda about how economy works that austerity-led growth is possible?

Is it that they don't care about the party or their own reputation?

I hope Corbyn and the Greens don't fall for the same fiscal responsibility nonsense. Never give the neoliberals an inch.

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[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 38 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

You need to contextualise his actions in the understanding that he's an intelligence plant that successfully avoided the UK getting an anti-imperialist leader right before the Ukraine and Palestine kicked off. We could have had Corbyn or Rebecca for all of the current events, the UK would be the spearhead of antizionism and it's very possible that splits in the west over the Ukraine war could have occurred.

What they cared about was keeping out the left and avoiding harm to the imperialist projects which must have already been in the pipeline at the time. This behaviour has not stopped. It's everything to them.

The Labour party dying doesn't matter to the intelligence apparatus as long as it maintains these projects. They will get Reform next and they know imperialism is perfectly safe in their hands.

If a new left rises up they will handle it separately as and when the time comes. The immediate battle is what they care about.

[–] cinnaa42@hexbear.net 41 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Apologies this ended up being quite long and it's just my own view.

Because the current ruling clique got into the position in order to enact an anti-left purge by restricting internal party democracy, purging candidates that are insufficiently loyal to Blairism and israel. They rode into government as the only existing opposition to a historically-unpopular Tory regime and managed to pull off a large parliamentary majority despite getting only 33% of the vote, which immediately went to their head and convinced a large number of them that their removed neoliberal authoritarian politics were historically popular. This was only possible with the support of the hard right media establishment and behind it, the City of London, which were profoundly spooked by the 4 year Corbyn premiership and had to be brought back on-side by manifold promises to avoid any kind of social democratic reform, resulting in the "fiscal rules" of Rachel Reeves and the broader restrictions placed by the treasury and the office for budget responsibility.

Of course, this same media establishment and the broader petit-bourg/labour aristocratic masses who make up the largest voting population also find tax rises to be anathema, so the government has gone to great lengths to avoid increasing tax whatsoever (save for some minor increases and equalisations in areas such as inheritance, hence the "farmer protests", and national insurance rises for employers, which are minor but being treated as though they're Stalinist expropriations).

Overall this prevents any increase in public expenditure (save for a few pet projects, the military budget, and wage increases for some public sector workers) and in fact has led to a new wave of austerity. It is important also to mention the Truss experience which weighs heavy on the minds of any regime's budgetary managers; in 2022 Truss tried to implement tax cuts that would have made the British state insolvent much more rapidly than it otherwise will be, and this spooked the bond markets, almost leading to a serious financial crisis and insolvency in the short term. The financial deep state fear this happening again as Britain's finances are dire and worsening, and the Labour government are terrified of the possibility that they might have to go to the IMF for a bailout, which last happened in 1976 under Callaghan's Labour government and would be a deep national embarrassment, as well as an echo of "old Labour" that they're desperate to avoid. To understand why, you have to know that elderly reactionaries constantly harp on about the 1970s and how terribly Labour managed the state in that decade.

Unlike the US which has infinitely deep pockets due to the dollar's global hegemony, the British state is at more immediate risk of a financial crisis and the budgetary shortfall worsens every year, leading to an increasingly radical drive to cut state expenditure at any cost which is shared by every party with a chance at getting into government via parliamentary means, and yes, this would likely also apply to a social democratic government if such a party had a genuine shot at electoral victory. This manifests as a contradiction between the government itself and the parliamentary party who find some of these cost-cutting measures too evil even for them, such as the recent rebellion on cuts to disability benefits that would have amounted to wholesale social murder.

The only option left to them that doesn't involve fighting their own parliamentary party, then, is to seek private investment at any cost as a driver of growth. This means courting Blackrock, it means lowering the cap on ISAs to try and force the upper middle class into seeking riskier investments, it means reforming pension structures to allow more to be invested. Of course, this isn't anything like what Starmer and his faction promised they'd be doing when they were in the leadership election in 2020 with a much more left-leaning base, and it's not what the unions want either (some strikes were quickly settled via pay rises but there are many further issues unresolved). Nobody is getting what they wanted except for the City of London and a layer of professional middle class freaks.

As basically everyone is disappointed and their popularity dwindles, Starmer and his leading clique, having done nothing but repress the left and pander to the right in the lead up to winning power, can only reflexively continue to do so, and have been more authoritarian and radical in attempting to crack down on the social movements than even the Tories were. They attempt to appear "serious" about the immigration "crisis" (migration numbers are high but it's a direct result of the need for cheap, exploitable labour, which neoliberalism demands), leading to their dangerous aping of far-right rhetoric and policy. This fails to convince the fascist scum who will never trust Labour anyway and are voting Reform or Tory, but it also disgusts the minority of decent people in the country.

There's a lot I'm not addressing here, especially around the sheer radicalisation of neoliberal rightists within the party due to Ukraine/Russia and the genocide of Palestinians that they're complicit in, but these are the broad strokes IMHO. These budgetary issues will ruin any government that gets into power no matter how far-left or far-right they are, as following decades of neoliberalism the state is totally governed by the markets and the markets are getting easier and easier to removedwith every passing year. In a few years this will manifest either as a gigantic financial crisis or a round of austerity so severe that the state recedes totally from many aspects of life, both of which will open up room for some kind of extra-parliamentary seizure of power that will end the United Kingdom.

[–] CleverOleg@hexbear.net 15 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

elderly reactionaries constantly harp on about the 1970s and how terribly Labour managed the state in that decade.

I’m an American and even I have constantly heard this about 1970s Britain (but I also have watched too much Clarkson-era Top Gear). That the economy of the UK in the 1970s was a complete failure dominated by inefficient unions and shoddy products, and that Thatcher came in and fixed it all. If anyone knows of any good reading material about this era that provides a counter to this prevailing narrative, I’d love to read up on that.

[–] GoodGuyWithACat@hexbear.net 5 points 2 days ago

Don't know anything about the Brits, but the American crisis of manufacturing profitability was also that time. I have to imagine they are connected.

[–] TrippyFocus@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 days ago

Commenting in case someone provides reading material later

[–] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 15 points 2 days ago

This is spot on.

[–] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 28 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Every proponent of austerity must honestly answer these questions: if the "goal" of austerity is to 'tighten belts' through the lean times so private capital can amass the funds to spend and therefore lift the economy out of the lean times... what is their plan if the lean times don't end? How long will austerity be imposed if it is unsuccessful? Five years? Ten years? A hundred years? Is austerity truly the only solution to the stated problem? How long is too long? Is there a point where you will admit it isn't appropriate?

Because if your answer is yes, fine, we can argue about it. If your answer is, like I suspect, no, then we have nothing to discuss.

Because I don't think they are doing austerity to fix a problem and I think they know it too. It is simply an ideologically consistent course of action and they're acting it out not to see if it works but just to do it. Because if it "works" to fix the economy, bonus, if not it's still great because it funneled wealth to the rich. It did its real job.

In any event I'm sure the ~~banker~~ labour party will figure this out

[–] FuckyWucky@hexbear.net 24 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

yea, its ridiculous, because when there is no Government deficit, the main determinant of profits is capitalists' investment, and to make investment they have to draw upon their savings (cash they hoard) this is finite. the only other way is going to a bank and asking for a loan. so, the only way for growth in such an environment is larger and larger amounts of credit, likely a bubble. ofc that is not likely to happen since capitalists don't take risks like that, so you just have stagnant economy. its a bit more complicated since capitalists now make up financial assets but still.

i think they are desperately trying to increase private debts and pump more safe savings of workers held in bank into stock markets.

https://x.com/hmtreasury/status/1945054326390657101

and https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgwz7vypllo

[–] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

so, the only way for growth in such an environment is larger and larger amounts of credit, likely a bubble. ofc that is not likely to happen since capitalists don't take risks like that, so you just have stagnant economy

Again I don't think any of these people know how capitalism "works" outside of "use to funnel money to self." It's good at indulging that impulse - it rewards it. But it undermines itself by doing that. The eternal glimmer of a short term profit undermines any long term plan. Austerity is their version of a long term plan. Or whatever. I don't know what the fuck they're doing except bald-faced wealth transfer. It's so transparent I don't know how they spin it as anything else. It's like the horse and sparrow analogy except without the analogy so they just tell you to sift nutrients from their waste and deal with the smell of shit like a good citizen.

Edit: like @MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net said in this thread they call it "austerity" like that's the plan or how they sell it to the public but it's actually a deeper wealth(and power) reshuffling

[–] Chana@hexbear.net 26 points 2 days ago

It's a liberal entryist project by capital. There are always plenty of stooges that will play that game, it is the power of cash, media influence, capital strikes, etc.

[–] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 37 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Because the Starmer project isn't a party political project. It's a catalytic project to reform the British state with a final phase of asset stripping and shedding the last vestiges of 'liberal democracy'. The deep British establishment see the train coming down the tracks - total collapse of living standards, ecological crisis, mass displacement of people - and are building a state they think can survive it. An internally-oppressive fortress nation that models itself on a mixture of Singapore and Israel, where a sizable chunk of the population are simply surplus to requirements and a potential threat as life gets rapidly worse for the majority.

As for why individual MPs and the rest of the party go along with it, the massive post-Corbyn intake of candidates and officials were specifically selected (often against party procedure) for their "reliable loyalty" to the project. They're corporate lower-middle managers selected because of their lack of insight, interest, or ideological concerns. Most are paid lobbyists for friendly interests and/or empty suits, promised financial reward in the form of board seats and lucrative advisory/NGO positions when they inevitably lose, whose only job is to maintain a reliable parliamentary majority for the duration of the project's term.

[–] cinnaa42@hexbear.net 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

a final phase of asset stripping and shedding the last vestiges of 'liberal democracy'

well, the final phase until Reform get in and implement a new final phase.

That reliable parliamentary majority is already completely unreliable though lol

[–] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 16 points 2 days ago

Farage and some of the more competent Reform officials + financiers are part of that project. The state will need a government who aren't squeamish about being openly fascist to put down unrest when the worst of Labour's policy and state repression really starts to bite.

[–] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 14 points 2 days ago

I hate how correct this position is.

[–] happybadger@hexbear.net 28 points 2 days ago (1 children)

JCP: 33.4% (+14.5)

LAB: 28.0% (-20.9)

Hell yeah, the Japanese Communist Party is winning.

[–] jack@hexbear.net 25 points 2 days ago

I literally cannot tell the difference between my two imperialist bourgeois dictatorship island kingdoms

[–] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 27 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Just a random thought : they don't give a fuck about winning or the working class. They care about the material comfort from kissing the ass of the rich.

[–] doleo@lemmy.one 14 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I don't think you're wrong about this, I'm just surprised how short-termist they're being. You'd think that by just making the minimum amount of concessions, they'd walk to victory in the next election. But instead, they just double down, opening the door for uncle Nigel to skulk right in.

[–] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 21 points 2 days ago

It's not short-termist because it's not an electoral project. It's a project of state reformation by the deep-seated British establishment. No one running the project gives a shit if the Labour party even survives, never mind gets elected again, and in many ways the total collapse and destruction of the party may even be beneficial to them.

[–] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 16 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I realise this is just vibes coming from me, but as long as I've been alive (40+ years), "centre-left" parties have been pulling this "why the fuck are they forgetting their working people" shit. Parties like Labour from whatever country, the Democrat party from the US, Liberal party in Canada, SPD in Germany, etc. I'm sure I'll be 80 and listening to people wonder why Labour and the Democrats won't do anything to prevent an offensive nuclear attack in the water wars of 2060.

People smarter than me have analysed how bourgeois parliaments make careerists out of supposed left leaders. AOC and Bernie Sanders seem to be the most obvious examples of this.

Edit: sorry if this comes of as debating you. I'm agreeing with you.

[–] doleo@lemmy.one 9 points 2 days ago

sorry if this comes of as debating you. I’m agreeing with you.

Not all, I agree with what you wrote. I suppose, to put it clearly, I'm surprised how far and how fast labour abandoned their supporters. You're right, there's plenty of historical precedent, it's just shocking (to me, personally) to see the extent of it.

[–] Damarcusart@hexbear.net 23 points 2 days ago

I think because a lot of the ruling class in the west has recognised that the mask of capital will need to come off sooner or later and this notion of "liberal democracy" has run its course. They aren't bothering to win elections by appealing to the working class, they are appealing the wealthy in the hopes of getting to be the ones running things once even their sham democracy is abandoned.

[–] Andrzej3K@hexbear.net 22 points 2 days ago

Their job is to keep the left out. For some of them this is just a product of their incoherent politics; for many of them these days it is an explicit part of their belief system and their number one priority. Starmer in particular is an establishment man though and through, and I'm sure he'll be rewarded for the role he's played in ushering in Farage et al.

[–] RaisedFistJoker@hexbear.net 21 points 2 days ago

their job isnt to win, their job is to serve capital, and if thats by offering the government on a silver platter to nigel fromage then so be it

[–] TheRogueKitten@hexbear.net 15 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Sorry for being a "Negative Ned" but even if Labour DOES become a proper left party or Corbyn goes with the Green party, TERF Island will always fail as long as the Crown still exists.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Neither of those are happening. Corbyn is making his own party and Labour is dying. The Greens are irrelevant liberals and the left refuses to support them.

[–] TheRogueKitten@hexbear.net 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

But the Crown unfortunately STILL exists...

Fuck the King. (AND I MEAN THIS UNIRONICALLY.)

[–] Horse@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

i would also like to see royal heads on spikes but the ~~inbred aristocratic drain on public funds~~ crown isn't all that relevant to why the red tories are self-destructing

[–] TheRogueKitten@hexbear.net 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Now that I read my comments and replies... You're right.

Still... Fuck the King.

[–] Horse@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 days ago

agreed, fuck the king

[–] Chump@hexbear.net 13 points 2 days ago
[–] moss_icon@hexbear.net 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Keir Starmer might truly be the most spineless person to ever be prime minister. That doesn't help matters.

[–] huf@hexbear.net 15 points 2 days ago

as usual, he's got a spine when standing up to anything to his left

[–] nothx@hexbear.net 6 points 2 days ago