" built-in backdoors,"
Good luck getting that into a lot of the open source tech we now use.
this post was submitted on 26 May 2025
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Only the headline asserts "built-in backdoors", the actual link... not so much.
A reasonable reading of the proposal, assuming it came into effect, is that ISPs, banks, telcos etc would be asked to retain certain records for a number of months or years in a harmonised way. Law enforcement agencies would be required to ask for it in the exact same way they ask for records right now and all the rules concerning GDPR etc would still apply.
Open source tech has zero to do with it, it's a matter of policy.
The only wrinkle there is "voluntary compliance," which might be construed as warrantless access.
Simple: the open source tech is now illegal unless they can afford a full time legal team.
It's regulatory capture: the big firms get consulted by the EU and can design the laws to the detriment of competition. It's why now, for example, european cars are so expensive and restricted to a handfull of producers.
Alphabet and friends welcome regulation like this.
This is something you'd expect in North Korea
(Europeans rather than Americans in this case, but you get the point.
They always say North Korea or China, not Japan, South Korea, or anything from Southeast Asia.
We don't have an equivalent in Europe or in America yet, (Although America is doing the work to get there fast, and there are similar people trying to get Europe there.) but the equivalent we did have last century is still referenced in these kinds of threads. Perhaps even more so than the two examples you don't want to be used.
It has nothing to do with Asia, but with a totalitarian regime. Such mass surveillance is what dictators do. I could also have said old east Germany, the USSR, Russia, the US, Turkmenistan, El salvador. It's just that I chose north Korea as it is currently one of the worst and most known today.
Except it's not what they're doing. It's what the EU is doing. Westerners just assume that they're always "the good guys", and whenever they do something bad the most they can muster up is "this is something 'the bad guys" would do!"
You're looking at something being done by the EU and immediately pivot to attacking other countries
Because I don't want the EU to change in a totalitarian regime. I want to be the good guys but I'm disgusted by our support of Israel, I'm disgusted by our predatory trade deals with developing countries, etc. So I know we're not he good guys. But I want to be, and I want to keep/make the EU a nice place to live in. So I do compare certain extreme proposals to countries where you'd expect certain things to happen, so people will understand we don't want to go in that direction. We should always strive to do better. But we also have a dictatorship inside the EU (Hungary) so it's not all happy days het either. We should just steer away from this instead of incorporate it into the entire EU.
So I know weโre not he good guys
Do you? When you hear about some other country outside of the EU and the West doing something draconian do you find yourself saying "This is something youโd expect in the EU"? Or do you reserve that statement for the designated "bad guy countries". I don't think you see the EU as bad guys, I think you see them as "The Good Guys, who are not currently living up to the people they're supposed to be. Because these labels aren't based on what countries actually do, they're based on a per-assigned ontology, where some countries are good and some are bad inherently, and if the former does bad that's just them falling short of their true nature. So even when they do bad things, those bad things still remain somehow metaphysically of the bad guy country, like saying that a law in the EU is somehow "North Korean" in character.
So I do compare certain extreme proposals to countries where youโd expect certain things to happen
I 'expect' this kind of thing to happen in the EU, because it does, and it is. You're once again acting like something being done by "good guy" countries is actually representative of other countries, and not of the EU.
We should always strive to do better.
Step one is to stop assuming you're ontologically the good guys and that any bad things you do is actually just out of character and more like something they'd do in enemy countries.
But we also have a dictatorship inside the EU
Yeah, and most of the EU is actively supporting the most brutal regime on Earth in an active genocide. I reject the idea that the EU has a leg to stand on when it comes to accusing other countries of being totalitarian just because it reserves its totalitarian repression for people overseas.
Any country that treats fleeing the country as criminal deserves all the hate it can get. North Korea is evil.
It deserves all criticism and insult, both fair and precise teardowns, and mad sloppy jabs.
You just attack me based on your assumptions. You are doing exactly what you are accusing me of: You act like you are better than me by making me a bad guy.
If you think the EU isn't a better place than the DPRK, you're free to go there. I do not expect certain things to happen in a free democracy, when we want to keep it a free democracy instead of a totalitarian regime. I'm willing to fight for it and speak out. Giving up all our privacy for mass surveillance doesn't fit the EU and what it stands for. If you think otherwise, you might not understand the EU.
I don't feel like defending attacks based on your assumptions so I'm going to step out of this discussion. There aren't just good and bad guys, the world is so much more complex than just black and white. You keep on attacking me for thinking "we are the good guys" even though I already said we aren't. We indeed are better than others and others are better than us. That's how the world works. But there are no good guys. I try to be become better and help others become better. I don't look down on others, rather prefer to help them instead. I try to be a good guy but I also make mistakes. I'm only human. But at least I'm doing the best I can.
I wish you a good day
You just attack me based on your assumptions.
No, I'm calling out a behavior I disagree with
You are doing exactly what you are accusing me of: You act like you are better than me by making me a bad guy.
That's not remotely what I was saying, please actually read what I said and make a real effort to understand what I meant.
If you think the EU isnโt a better place than the DPRK, youโre free to go there.
I think that we are explicitly talking about something bad the EU is doing. I do also think the DPRK is a much better place to live than Gaza, and the EU supports that. so maybe you should go to Gaza?
I do not expect certain things to happen in a free democracy
Well they do, so maybe you should recalibrate your expectations to be based on real life and not the good-guy/bad-guy fiction you apply, so you don't end up looking at things the EU does and saying "this is something [bad guy country] does!" Also, hard to call it a free democracy when the people you murder overseas don't' get to vote, and all of your media is owned by right wing oligarchs.
Iโm willing to fight for it and speak out.
Doesn't seem like it, seems like you're more interested in fighting foreigners.
I donโt feel like defending attacks based on your assumptions so Iโm going to step out of this discussion.
So you can't actually defend yourself but are too stubborn to admit it.
There arenโt just good and bad guys, the world is so much more complex than just black and white.
Correct, so maybe you should start actually acting like it, rather than splitting the world into the good guys (free democracies) and the bad guys (totalitarian regimes) and treating totalitarian policies of the good guys as some how being ontologically of the bad guy countries that had nothing to do with them.
though I already said we arenโt.
Then stop acting like you think you are.
But there are no good guys.
Then act like it.
I donโt look down on others, rather prefer to help them instead.
That sounds like you look down on them. Do you ever actually entertain the possiblity that anyone might be right outside of "west best" liberals?
I try to be a good guy but I also make mistakes
And will you actually change your behavior when your mistakes get pointed out? Or will you double down?
This motherfucker likes Kim Jong Un and Juche shit.
I tried posting on reddit, but it's blocked for some reason.
Even as an American, this is terrifying. Everyone knows my country is shit, but I've always seen you guys as the gold standard and for this kind of thing to even be discussed over on your side of the pond is absolutely horrifying....
It's a specific group within the EU that's trying to do this.
Like those Project 2025 people.
This has widespread support under MEPs, accross party lines. It's only Germany and Poland that opposed it last time. (1)
And Germany won't oppose this time because the government is righ wing as hell.
Is there a list of those who support?
I think that was for Clientside scanning, not all the awful things this secretive group is trying to push.
always seen you guys as the gold standard
In the land of the blind
If the bottom of the barrel is what you're trying to compare a golden coated shit is taking all the money.
Lol I mean, nobody is perfect, but you guys have things like freedom of movement (even between countries) and France and Germany pushing open source software forward for the sake of privacy, security, flexability and community. Plus, you guys seem to have a mindset of "until it's proven safe, it will be illigal" compared to our "until it is proven UNsafe, it will be legal". Maybe "gold standard" isn't the best term, but I feel like you guys have better way of thinking about the world
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Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
They already see the coming day. This is why they want the control and enhanced viability
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This is to make sure VPNs have to retain data and zero logging will be illegal
They have been a thorn in the side of Disney, Netflix, Amazon and HBO for years.
Every year they try to push this same shit with a new name. One day there will be a reichstag fire and it will be passed.
So fucking transparant, yet I don't see a way to stop them.
The rough quote is, we have to win against this every time. They only have to win once.
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Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I wouldn't be aware of it otherwise. For what its worth, I left my ideas as feedback there.
Also, I would just like to point out that before lemmy (and subscribing to various EU communities) I was not at all active in voicing my opinion about such things as I didn't have any idea that it was even possible/how to do it. Lemmy as a whole has helped me become more active in this regard :D
I have also left some feedback for the first time!
Data retention != mass surveilance. Data retention != built-in backdoors. Even the link summary spells out exactly what the purpose of the proposal is (criminal proceedings) and the intended objective (data retention standards).
Its refreshing to see people care about this subject outside of privacy forums.
Im sure the agencies that do monitor us have stopped potential threats, but there is a fine line between this and having secret police.
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