this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2023
44 points (94.0% liked)

GenZedong

4974 readers
49 users here now

This is a Dengist community in favor of Bashar al-Assad with no information that can lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton, our fellow liberal and queen. This community is not ironic. We are Marxists-Leninists.

See this GitHub page for a collection of sources about socialism, imperialism, and other relevant topics.

This community is for posts about Marxism and geopolitics (including shitposts to some extent). Serious posts can be posted here or in /c/GenZhou. Reactionary or ultra-leftist cringe posts belong in /c/shitreactionariessay or /c/shitultrassay respectively.

We have a Matrix homeserver and a Matrix space. See this thread for more information. If you believe the server may be down, check the status on status.elara.ws.

Rules:

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Hey all,

I'm currently developing a Marxist-Leninist analysis of settler colonialism, especially in light of the situation in Palestine, and am going to read Settlers: The Mythology of the White Proletariat by J. Sakai for the first time. Before I do I was just curious what other comrades think of the book and its analysis? It seems a pretty controversial text among many online Marxist groups, to whatever extent that matters, but as an Indigenous communist I feel having a clear and principled stance on the settler question is important for all serious communists. I'm not sure if I'll agree with Sakai specifically, but since I generally agree with the opinions of y'all, I was curious as to your thoughts on the book.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml 28 points 2 years ago (1 children)

One of the best books I've ever read, makes crackers so uncomfortable.

It's not like the book says send whitey back to Europe, just that they as a settler class have no vested interest in decolonizing. It's not that controversial imo but I'm Black and also Indigenous so 🤷🏿‍♂️ spoke to me just fine

[–] frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I don't have any native in me as far as I know; but considering the trail for my geneaology disappears after the 1890s, it's totally in the air as to who and what. And yeah, same situation as you-- spoke to me just as seamlessly as Wretched of the Earth or We Will Shoot Back. (Which, if you don't have that latter one, it's by Akinyele Omowale Umoja; Black Agenda Report put me onto it a few months back.)

As for OP-- I don't expect anyone to really agree 100% with Settlers, but I've read it cover-to-cover like twice now, with a third coming up the next time I have a good, long break. It's controversial because one, Sakai published under pseudonym and that's enough to make naive, non-opsec minded 'comrades' shit their britches. Two, Sakai was maybe even more abrasive than brother Ture in his analyses; and that makes the settlers immensely uncomfortable. Three, it illuminates a WHOLE BUNCH of buried Amerikan malfeasance; and if I learned anything about the publicity that the settlers 'learning' about Tulsa engendered, a lot of the controversy is coming from people who don't want to think about their nations and organizations of choice doing the things they did.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I have distant Ioway and Charokee, but since I'm white passing and have no connection to tribal heritage I'd count myself as a settler.

It's a distressing book, because it basically tells every settler "you aren't the main character." We can only support actual revolutionaries.

[–] frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml 23 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

because it basically tells every settler “you aren’t the main character.”

I mean, if I might be so bold, I'd think some settlers need to hear that message lmao. Joking aside, it's that kind of thing that I don't know a single Black comrade that actually organizes with settler orgs and parties and doesn't have a story about getting absolutely talked over, sidelined, and otherwise made to feel 'other' within those very organizations; and I think if we got enough white leftists to internalize that message of Settlers at least once, we'd actually start making some headway in equality in this shithole of a nation.

And mind-- I'm not saying that settlers can't lead their own left organizations; but on matters of liberation, especially Black and Indigenous liberation respectively, they unequivocally should not expect to be at the head of the table on the when, where, how, and why. They should consider themselves lucky to even have a seat at that table if they do; which they likely will bc good luck extricating a settler when someone already fucked around and gave them an invite to the kickback, but it should be understood that it ain't the settler's place to talk any kind of sideways about these matters like they're leading and presiding over them.

[–] muad_dibber@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Nother historical thread with this same question:

https://lemmygrad.ml/post/309338

[–] KKSankara@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 2 years ago
[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 2 years ago

Read with a pencil in hand. Write things down. Analyze it by breaking it apart. Then read Tuck and Yang's "Decolonization is not a metaphor". Compare and contrast your notes. Develop a nuanced read of Settlers.

[–] Bobson_Dugnutt@hexbear.net 18 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's a good book that's worth reading, even though I disagree with some of Sakai's conclusions, and I think he was unfair to certain multi-racial leftist groups like the IWW.

I'd also recommend An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States.

[–] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The funny thing is that Sakai is actually very positive towards the IWW, they come off as one of the best white organisations in US history. I'll admit, though, that he does critique them in regards to their syndicalism.

[–] Bobson_Dugnutt@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Maybe I'm thinking of a different org, it's been awhile since I read it

[–] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago

Nah, he did critique them on their lack of analysis on imperialism and the state. Generally, Sakai was pretty rough on everyone in the US. He did say a lot of positive things about the IWW, though, which is very unlike every single white organisation (liberal or radical).

He absolutely tore other unions to shreds, though.

[–] supersolid_snake@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Great book, you see a lot of assertions proven correct right now. It's also full of facts. If the assertions of the book touches nerves they should try to prove it wrong by uniting and supporting their comrades.

[–] ButtigiegMineralMap@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Is it worth adding to an ML booklist? If so where would it go? Near the beginning for new-comers or near the end for nuanced and complex theory?

[–] simply_surprise@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think midway through in "theory for specific places or conditions".

[–] ButtigiegMineralMap@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 2 years ago

Cool I’ll add it alongside some Mao Zedong readings, I feel like those are also good for making good Party decisions and resolutions during specific circumstances, even if it isn’t the most applicable in current situations, it’s still useful to know.

[–] DesiDebugger@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 2 years ago

It is one of the best if not the best looks into how settler colonialism functions especially from a socialist context.

[–] ImOnADiet@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Incredibly important book if you’re american, or even canadian or australian (are there versions of Settlers for them lol?). Might be more important than even basic theory if you’re white. Not a perfect book by any means, likely in large part because (I think) what we have is like the first draft and wasn’t even going to be put out until his comrades pressured him into publishing it. I wouldn’t trust any critiques of it from someone who isn’t explicitly a decolonial marxist.

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Great book. I disagree with his conclusions (my take is there is a white working class especially with neoliberal proletarianization, but it’s extremely important to consider them as part of an oppressor nation) and it’s not dialectical, but it’s definitely worth reading. I wish someone re-did it today (for more recent data and Marxist analysis. I’m impressed by the scope of the book and I learned a lot from it. You should probably read more better done and specified books along with it though, like ‘the red deal,’ ‘fresh banana leaves,’ etc.

[–] muad_dibber@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I'd consider any of Zak Cope's work, especially divided world, divided class, as some of the best modern works addressing labor aristocracy / socialized bribery theory and neocolonialism in the modern era.

Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz also has great stuff, an indigenous peoples history, and loaded are excellent expose's of the US settler garrison.

[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 years ago

Totally, also Gerald Horne’s great work among others.

[–] simply_surprise@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

It's been maybe the most illuminating book I've read.

[–] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

One of my top ten books, it changed my life and my whole worldview. I'm glad that this thread isn't devolving into all the other internet discussions on Sakai, which is to criticism him for things he never said. Even the disagreements I'm seeing here seem fair.

load more comments
view more: next ›