this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023

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545

for fucks sake rule (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 years ago by Zekas@lemmy.world to c/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone

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[–] TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone 178 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Maybe, just maybe, killing houndreds of civilians who have nothing to do with settlements and can easily be against their government will not help your revolutionary goal?

Hamas is not a revolutionary organization, it is a far right, fundamentalist terrorist organization.

[–] vivadanang@lemm.ee 77 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The fuckwits murdered people who fought so hard for Palestinian rights. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/peace-activists-killed-israel.html

[–] TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone 47 points 2 years ago

Hamas has long history of murdering anyone who doesn't agree with them. Palestinian or Izraeli

[–] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.de 74 points 2 years ago

Based and rational stance

[–] Vlaxtocia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 67 points 2 years ago

ITT: tankies

[–] riodoro1@lemmy.world 61 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This post will surely result in civilized discussion.

[–] Zekas@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago

I'm not sure what I was expecting

[+] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 33 points 2 years ago (3 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] Vlaxtocia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 88 points 2 years ago (1 children)

We're allowed to think they're both cunts you know?

[+] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 32 points 2 years ago (4 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] FREEZX@kbin.social 43 points 2 years ago (3 children)

One side is reacting on decades of oppression, the other is reacting on that reaction. They are the same.

[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] Enigma@sh.itjust.works 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Wtf, do you have a source for this? Cause like I’m seeing all kinds of claims being thrown around on threads with no one providing sources.

ETA: Nonbiased sources. Not just the first article you find. If you don’t know if your source is nonbiased or not, you can always double check on mediabiasfactcheck.

[–] doingthestuff@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

But who honestly trusts mediabiasfactcheck?

[–] Enigma@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I have been using them for years and have thus far not been steered wrong with nonbiased news sources. They explain in detail their reasoning for labeling a news source as well as explain the algorithm they use. And so far the only people I’ve come across who dont like them are people who prefer to be told how to feel instead of looking for facts.

[–] doingthestuff@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

I just looked up a handful of news sources on there and was overall satisfied with their assessments. My assumption though is that even the "bias checkers" have to have their own internal bias.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (2 children)

So fighting back against violent oppression is just as bad as fighting back against the person who's fighting you because you violently oppressed them for decades?

That's a level of mental gymnastics I can't fathom.

If I'm being harassed violently for years and I eventually shoot the person harassing me, their family trying to get revenge is not the same as me defending myself.

[–] JochCool@kbin.social 19 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Shoot the person harassing you, sure. That's something completely different from killing civillians arbitrarily.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

In their eyes every Israeli is complicit in their suffering.

I used a that example because I figured it'd be easier to understand.

They've been under direct siege from Israel for decades. When you've been oppressed that long anyone who belongs to the side of the oppressor becomes the enemy.

Think of it like Nazi Germany. How many innocent German civilians were killed because we couldn't discriminate between Nazi and not Nazi?

Israel has been trying to provoke Palestine into violent actions just like this as an excuse to further push their genocide of Palestine.

[–] JochCool@kbin.social 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

At least then limit your attacks on the Israeli military or police. Mass killing civilians does not do anything about the genocide of Palestine. There's a good chance it'll only make it worse.

The idea that people just being in a country are automatically complicit with the government's actions is the real mental gymnastics here. And yeah I understand that hatred can make people blind, but that does not make it justifiable.

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

Yeah and this person isn't alone in doing this. I saw same thing in Islam related subreddits. And I assume same thing is happening on other social media.

This behaviour not only alienates Palestinians but Muslims as whole from the rest of the world.

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

When you've been oppressed that long anyone who belongs to the side of the oppressor becomes the enemy.

Oh please don't try to misdirect. What sufferings were inflicted upon them by Nepalese and Filipinos?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/10/what-we-know-the-number-of-foreigners-killed-missing-abducted-in-israel

Israel has been trying to provoke Palestine into violent actions

Oh no. Poor gullible Hamas didn't know they were killing tourists. Why would Israel make them do it?????????

Fuck them. There's no justification to what Hamas is doing. They're terrorists.

[–] 1847953620@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago (1 children)

We're ignoring decades of heinous unnecessary war crimes against civilians on both sides, periodic provocation on both sides, etc.

I'm not entirely sure what the best course of action is at this point, but trying to define one as purely the good guy and the other as purely the bad guy is a recipe for ineffective/immoral decisions.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

I'm not saying they're not both bad but I find it hard to condemn the actions of the abused when they finally have a chance to attack their abuser.

It's like when a women kills the man that's beaten her for years. Why should she be punished for defending herself? The abuse won't stop unless you either successfully defend yourself or you die.

Yeah they shouldn't be killing civilians. That's never okay. But how many of those civilians supported Israel's formal actions against Palestine? How many Israelis supported the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people?

It'd be like if the native Americans started a coup in the US. Most people don't actively think about native Americans but when they do they don't care about the fact they were basically genocided for the land we now call home. At what point can apathy be considered hostile?

If you watch a man get murdered and not only not do anything about it but actively try to hide it you're complicit.

Edit: I don't condone the acts. But I understand them.

[–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 17 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

When a woman kills the man that's beaten her for years

More like a woman builds a pipe bomb and blows up the school the man that's beaten her for years sends his kids to.

Your fundamental mistake here is assuming that all Israelis are complicit. In the same way that just because a person is Palestinian, that doesn't make them Hamas, just because someone is Israeli doesn't make them Otzma Yehudit.

If you want to go down that road of insanely broad generalizations, you could just as easily say that Israel is correct to bomb civilians because "how many of those civilians support Hamas?". I hope you see how insane that statement is, and how it's the mirror image of what you said.

[–] Tnaeriv@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 years ago

Hamas is not Palestine. They do not represent the Palestinian people. They're not the victims. They are a far-right, anti-semitic, corrupt religious dictatorship that's known for human rights abuses against their own people. Their leaders have been brigading for complete destruction of Israel and removal of all Jewish people from the region, either by deportation or straight up genocide. Most Muslim nations don't support the Hamas, the Palestine Liberation Organization does not support them, most Palestinians don't support them. Stop saying they are victims.

[–] PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

Idk how annexation is not also violence

[–] duxbellorum@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago

…who is reacting and who is just violent here?

[–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago

revolutionary violence can not stem from reactionary fundamentalist organizations

[–] ZILtoid1991@kbin.social 37 points 2 years ago

Two things can be true at the same time

Hamas is a far-right terrorist organization.
Israel commits war crimes in retaliation.

[–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Are they sharing vids of it on social media and smiling about it?

In the absence of perfect I'll side with lesser evil

[–] sederx@programming.dev 9 points 2 years ago

Are they sharing vids of it on social media and smiling about it?

completely irrelevant , you prefer more dead kids but no videos about them? because id prefer less children would die.

[–] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago

How the fuck do you decide who is the lesser evil there?

[–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 23 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Neither side is clean. There is a rich history of fucking about. From Palestine Israel Hamas... Everyone over there

[–] davepleasebehave@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago

wise centrism