this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2025
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[–] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 2 points 28 minutes ago

But will it smell as good as filling up a tank of gas?

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 8 points 8 hours ago (3 children)

Maybe with a supercapacitor in the station and a chrging cable with the diameter of a fuel hose.

[–] Rob1992@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Not really, just make the vehicle 800v and then use the same Amp limits. That's where everyone is out pacing tesla now. Tesla went for amps, the others went for volts

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Energy is amp x volt. Same energy faster is more energy in same time, be it amps or volt. Dunno if your grid can bear it multiple times in each city but still better buffer it. And more volts needs more gum or you get the volts.

[–] minkymunkey_7_7@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I always imagined that portable future wizard (??nuclear??) power would be as simple as unscrewing a 5 gallon cannister from the back of a vehicle and exchanging it at the power/charging station for money. Like the small 20 lb LPG cooking gas tanks. I still think that electric cars are a phase of tech that cannot be sustainable in terms of money and environmental cost and waste for too long and that it is just transitional in our quest. Hydrogen power was always supposed to be the future in my mind.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Hydrogen has the same problems tho. Well, except metal/bor hydride, but they have low enery density.

[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Assuming this is about the same thing as the other BYD charging article I saw a couple days ago, they're using a higher voltage, which would let them charge faster without needing a thicker* cable.

(* The copper need not be thicker, but the insulation might need to be)

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

The copper need not be thicker, but the insulation might need to be

Exactly. More energy means either more copper or more rubber in the cable.

[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Rubber is cheap though, and flexible. If it's the size of a gas pump hose, oh well; gas pump hoses are also rubber. As long as they don't have to make the copper ridiculously thick, it shouldn't matter how thick the cable overall is

[–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 7 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

Is charging speed really the biggest issue with EV's?

[–] wellheh@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 hour ago

More like charging availability imo. Not everyone has a garage to conveniently charge in after a day's work. If you make charging speeds fast enough like with gas, you can negate that though.

[–] dance_ninja@lemmy.world 5 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

If you're going on a long road trip, yes.

[–] Takumidesh@lemmy.world 2 points 47 minutes ago* (last edited 40 minutes ago) (1 children)

But is it really?

A 2000 mile road trip with 20 minute charging breaks is gonna add what? 3 and a half hours on top of 30 hours of driving?

Unless you plan on doing a bunch of meth and speeding across the desert, I don't see a scenario where a regular person does 8+ hours of driving and doesn't take a 20 minute break.

I'd like to add that for the once in 20 years that car sees a 2000 mile road trip, I don't think waiting a little bit is actually an issue.

Take an honest reflection, and think, how often are people driving driving more than 300 miles in a single session.

Then think about yourself in the position of the road trip, are you going to sacrifice the lifespan of your battery to go from 20 minutes to 5 minutes charging time?, (especially since it's likely you will spend more than 5 minutes anyway just going to the bathroom, eating some food, etc.)

[–] Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.ca 2 points 12 minutes ago

It depends on how conveniently the chargers are located. If you have a smaller battery and can go 200km you'll need a charging station every 190km and mountainous terrain will change those distances as well. You many end up charging sooner than needed in order to get to the next charging spot. In reality it isn't as bad as it sounds. I travel the BC interior with my short range EV and the savings in fuel make it worthwhile to stop more often. Even when I pay the high speed charging rates, it is about 1/4 the cost of gasoline per km but takes 15% longer time to get to destination vs our gas vehicle.

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 16 points 10 hours ago

Only by perception, but it practicality mattered, we wouldn't be ligging around two tons of steel per person everywhere we went.

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 26 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

Stuff I've heard on naysays:

"The battery will blow up!!!!!"

No, it won't if it's a solid state battery - solid state batteries barely even notice such a charging rate, their temperature might change by half a degree from this monster charging rate.

"You can't supply the power because lines"

Modern large commercial buildings already suck down this amount and more.

"The grid overall can't take 1MW"

So, the 1,000 MW nuclear reactor can't provide 1MW? How about a reactor station with 4 units cranking 4000 MW? How about we add another 1000 in renewables? How about another 800MW with a single gas turbine? How about adding roof solar and a battery bank below ground for the charging station to supplement the power? We haven't even touched hydro or geo yet. Making power is not a problem, and we'll build out the power as we need it.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 3 points 8 hours ago

So, the 1,000 MW nuclear reactor can't provide 1MW?

There's some parts inbetween. You would need an extra line just for the charging stations.

Though, a capacitor bank (maybe where the fuel tank was) would be viable.

[–] riodoro1@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago

Modern large commercial buildings already suck down this amount and more.

And how mamy cars in said building? How many will be allowed to charge at the same time? Should we expect same grid for large commercial buildings and rural charging stations?

[–] fieryhamster@lemmy.world 107 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Countdown until Trump stupidly bans it as it "harms" President Musk.

[–] hildegarde@lemmy.blahaj.zone 60 points 1 day ago (1 children)

...

biden basically did that already. ever noticed there are no byds on the road in the us?

i seem to recall it wasn't an outright ban, but unreasonable tariffs on chinese evs specifically. a soft ban, but enough to be as effective.

[–] Mihies@programming.dev 32 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The official reason for tariffs is government subsidy AFAIK, but in reality the moment they lower the tariffs, US and EU automobile industry is done.

[–] Enelop@lemm.ee 21 points 1 day ago (8 children)

The heavy subsidy by the Chinese government is the reason they would dominate though. The tariffs won’t ever be lifted unless they stop manipulating the prices to be lower than domestic competitors…

[–] JustAnotherKay@lemmy.world 12 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Government providing money to create innovative new tech and make it available at a lowe cost to their constituents

Manipulating the prices to be lower

I just wanted to point out the pervasiveness of capitalist propaganda here. They're not manipulating prices, they're helping their people. It just so happens that our capitalistic systems don't do well when someone helps their neighbor because then we can't abuse them.

Now don't get me wrong though, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you the Chinese government does no wrong. But in just this particular case I think we're picking the wrong battle

[–] jaxxed@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

It is capitalist perspective, but not propaganda.

If there is meant to be capitalist competition then the competitors should not be massively funded by the government. China massively funds their electric car industry, principally because they own them.

That said, US carmakers get Government bailouts all the time.

[–] JustAnotherKay@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

Right but it's the specific use of the phrase "manipulating prices."

Manipulating has a negative connotation, it's a buzzword used often in capitalist propaganda. They're not manipulating prices, they're subsidizing the industry so that their people can reap the benefits of their taxes in a tangible way. The same way Americans subsidize farmers, and their EV industry. We just don't subsidize it as much.

[–] jaxxed@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 hours ago

You are right

[–] bamboo@lemm.ee 18 points 1 day ago (6 children)

They would dominate because they make a good product that isn’t more expensive than it has to be. US car companies have discontinued most affordable options to try and force people to only buy larger, higher end vehicles that most people have no use for. Now they’re mad that international companies are willing to sell the products they refuse to.

[–] Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Yes, usa car companies are bitches. But it is laughable that you think the reason it isn't more expensive has nothing to do with being subsidized

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[–] noodlejetski@lemm.ee 33 points 1 day ago (3 children)

how fast would it cause the battery to degrade, though?

[–] Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 30 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's the beauty of it. Just get a new one every two years like every other electronic device and you won't need to worry about that. Subscription plans will be available.

[–] Kyle_The_G@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago (4 children)

I wish the batteries were modular/interchangeable. You could just pull into a station, remove the spent battery and replace it with a full one, the spent one can then just get recharged and stored at the station for the next user to change out. You could even bring some extra ones in the trunk for a long trip!

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The problem is the form factor. They're broad, flat batteries under the floor of the car, because that's the most available space when you take out the drivetrain. If you wanted to make them swappable, you'd have to sacrifice the space under the hood or the trunk. Or the passenger space. And all that comes with their own safety concerns.

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[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I have a Chinese flashlight and the battery trademark is so unfortunate (soonfire) like WTF. Lol.

[–] glitch1985@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

That dying batteries last goal is to provide you with light. How inspiring.

[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago

And heat and depression treatment! (Lithium)

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[–] deadkennedy@lemm.ee 26 points 1 day ago (2 children)

this would be a massive leap for EVs

[–] Enelop@lemm.ee 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I’m sure it’s similar to how they trained DeepSeek for $5M when it was really over a $1B…

They make all kinds of false claims.

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[–] Buelldozer@lemmy.today 10 points 1 day ago (5 children)

The hurdle to this kind of fast charging isn't the tech in the car nor is it the tech in the charger. It's powering the fucking things.

A charging station the size of a small gas station that can handle a dozen cars at once, basically 6 islands with a pump / charger on each side, would require a nuclear reactor sitting out back to supply the required 1.2 Megawatts of power!

So we're either going to have to get comfy with having an SMR sitting next to every charging station or we're going to have to get over this idea of charging an EV pack in 5 minutes.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 6 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

The hurdle to this kind of fast charging isn't the tech in the car nor is it the tech in the charger. It's powering the fucking things.

Agreed.

would require a nuclear reactor sitting out back to supply the required 1.2 Megawatts of power!

Eh....

At 5 minutes a car, each charger would be able to accommodate 12 cars per hour. The 12-charger station, fed by that nuclear reactor, would be able to handle 144 per hour.

A typical gas station that size has an 8500 gallon tank, and refills 2-5 times per week. That amount of fuel will serve somewhere between 1000 to 3000 cars per week, or about 6 to 18 cars per hour.

This doesn't call for a nuclear reactor at the station. This calls for a sufficiently large battery pack at each station that can "trickle" charge continuously. I say "trickle" - if I did my math right, it would be about as much power as 15 hot tubs or 60 water heaters. About as much as a grocery store, with all its freezers, refrigerators, lights, HVAC, etc.

Certainly a lot of power, but certainly not outside the realm of possibility. On-site solar installations could offset a significant percentage of that demand.

[–] Shark03@lemmy.world 31 points 1 day ago (3 children)

People just have the wrong idea about EV charging. They think of it like a gas car, wait until you're low, then go somewhere to fill up. But really, it’s more like charging your phone. You plug it in at home, go to bed, wake up, and it’s ready. You’re not constantly thinking about it.

Fast charging is for road trips, not everyday driving. You’re not supposed to be scrambling to find a charger every couple of days. Ideally, you start each morning with 80%, go about your day, come home, plug in, and do it all over again. You’re never really "empty" unless you seriously mess up. And the whole "how long does it take to charge?" thing, isn't really all that relevant. You’re not sitting there watching it, it just happens while you’re doing other things.

People are stuck on the idea of gas stations, but with an EV, your "gas station" is literally your house.

So ideally it wouldn't be handling 12 cars at once it'd be handling one or two.

[–] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Unfortunately, the infrastructure for the standard use case you talk about isn't pervasive enough. Most apartments don't have chargers at all, let alone one per apartment. You can drive by a Tesla or DC fast charge station at almost any time of day in a big city and see a line of cars waiting to use the small number of chargers. People are taking naps in their car in a bank parking lot while charging. Kudos to them for embracing the inconvenience of not charging at home to help the environment, but I never would have bought my 2 EVs if I didn't have charging at home.

[–] Shark03@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

Thats a great point as well, if you live in an apartment the best you can hope for is if you have a garage with an outlet and your apartment complex hasn't cracked down on you plugging in that way, but that's like 20 miles charge in several hours.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 6 points 23 hours ago

People are taking naps in their car in a bank parking lot while charging.

Missed opportunity, right there, because even the operators still think in terms of "gas station". Get a plot of land with a nice view, build a cafe, build a couple of charging stations. Make it a destination people want to go to regardless whether they need a fill-up or not.

Heck, whatever happened to car cinemas.

[–] ifmu@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Yeah this is the idea. Personally I think charging needs more emphasis on at-work and apartment charging because if you don’t live at a house, you essentially rely on public charging which isn’t good for the battery.

Also more hotels should have charging. Having to drive 15 minutes away just to charge is annoying.

[–] Shark03@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

The other annoying thing is when you find a L2 charger at a hotel that is actually just an L1 charger in disguise.

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[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

15 MW power needed, while a single reactor gives 500 to 1000 MW. The usual nuclear plant and power lines seem more likely.

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[–] asbestos@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago (5 children)

I always think about an “imaginary” scenario where we all have ultra fast charging like this and plug our cars in at the same time. Would the grid experience a brownout?

[–] Atom@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

I studied this a bit in my MS and the answer is... probably not. "The grid will collapse" has been an anti-technology or pro fossil fuel talking point for a very long time, whether* its arguing against renewables or against personal computers or against AC units. The most recent was solar. Grid operators were adamant that solar would crash the grid if it accounted for more than 10%, then 20%, then 30% and so on and it never happened. Now it's onto EVs being the grid destroyer.

The reality is that production and use is not all that hard to predict. Ultrafast charging will eat some power, but that isn't going to be the norm for wide EV adoption. Public charging will cost more money and be less convenient than charging at home or work over a longer duration. Home chargers are capping around 30-35 amps, generally overnight when grid demand is low. Couple this with the combined low cost for residential solar to change at even lower rates depending on your state/nation's hostility to solar.

Now, if every car was replaced with an EV tomorrow, the grid would struggle. But that's not going to happen. Adoption will be a long slow process and energy producers will increase output on pace as demand forecasts increase. A good parallel to this is Air Conditioning adoption. That's another high demand appliance that went from rare to common. The grid has its challenges, but now the AC usage is forcastable and rarely challenges the grid.

Is it a challenge, especially with higher renewable mixtures, yes. Can utilities fumble? Of course. Will it be a widespread brownout every day during commute hours? Not likely.

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