this post was submitted on 08 Feb 2025
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I have backups on a backup hard drive and also synced to B2, but I am thinking about backing up to some format to put in the cupboard.

The issue I see is that if I don't have a catastrophic failure and instead just accidentally delete some files one day while organising and don't realise, at some point the oldest backup state is removed and the files are gone.

The other thing is if I get hit by a bus and no one can work out how to decrypt a backup or whatever.

So I'm thinking of a plain old unencrypted copy of photos etc that anyone could find and use. Bonus points if I can just do a new CD or whatever each year with additions.

I have about 700GB of photos and videos which is the main content I'm concerned about. Do people use DVDs for this or is there something bigger? I am adding 60GB or more each year, would be nice to do one annual addition or something like that.

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[–] Marthirial@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Thinking about this, the only ancient information we are still able to access is painted or edged on stone or clay. How about some sort huge wall with thousands of QRcode like engravings?

[–] root@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Reminds me of project Silica. Media historically was more durable (stone/ ink and cloth paper, etc) but had a low data density. As density increased, so did fragility

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 days ago

Haha like

spoilers for the three body problem seriesat the the end of the third three body problem book where they need to write something that will last for millions of years so they carve a message in huge letters into the rock

But I'm a millennial so if you think I own a huge amount of land you would be wrong 😛

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Tape. Amazon glacier if you're okay with that.

And regular test restores. An untested backup is not a backup.

But when considering what I need to back up, I usually overestimate how much I or other people will care if it's lost. Family photos are great, but what are the odds of someone saying "damn I wish we still had two dozen photos of that one barbecue?"

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 5 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I use tape but haven't been happy with my drive for a while, where do you get your drives? (Also OP I wouldn't recommend tape until you cross the 10TB mark personally)

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 4 points 3 days ago

Yeah after looking at the price of a drive, I agree it doesn't seem necessary at the level of data I have.

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[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

For your amount, just an external hard drive attached to a NAS or something is fine, or a 2-bay synology would be more than enough. Drives are coming in 20-24TB models now, that'd keep you going for a long time.

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[–] emuspawn@orbiting.observer 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

The other thing is if I get hit by a bus and no one can work out how to decrypt a backup or whatever.

Documentation, documentation, documentation. No matter what system you have, make sure your loved ones have a detailed, image-heavy, easy to follow guide on how restorations work - at the file level, at the VM level, at whatever level you are using.

That being said, DVDs actually have quite a short shelf life, all things considered. I'd be more inclined to use a pair of archival strength USB NVME drive, updated and tested routinely(quarterly, yearly, whatever makes sense). Or even an LTO tape, if you want to purchase the drive and some tapes.

You can put your backups in something like VeraCrypt. Set an insanely long password, encoded in a QR code, printed on paper. Store it in the same secured location you store your USB drives (or elsewhere, if you have a security posture).

You may also consider, if money is not a concern, a cloud VPS or other online file storage, similarly encrypted. This can provide an easy URL to access for the less tech-savvy, along with secured credentials for recovery efforts. Depending on what your successors might need to access, this could be a very straightforward way to log into a website and download what they need in an emergency.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

As much as I'm worried about family not being able to do it, I'm just as worried that I will do something dumb and lose the encryption key, losing everything. I am keen on the digital equivalent of a suitcase full of photos that could be stumbled upon.

I also already have borg backup set up to a backup drive and synced to the cloud (Backblaze B2).

For tape drives, is many thousands of dollars a normal price? Not sure I'm that keen.

[–] emuspawn@orbiting.observer 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

If you buy your LTO drive new, then yes they rip you a new one, for sure! Buy it used...but it still will cost you a few hundred. Like I said, if money is not a concern. If losing the encryption key is a concern, then USB is still your best bet. Make two, keep them simple and unencrypted, stick em in two different safes, update them regularly. And print the documentation with pictures!

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[–] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

USB hard drive? If we're talking about a cold backup that's easy to access a USB drive is reliable and easy.

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[–] betweenthesixes@lemm.ee 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I believe M-Disc to be the best consumer grade, optical solution out there. If you want to go commercial grade you are looking for LTO tapes, but your costs begin rising exponentially. If M-Disc claims are to be believed, they should last well longer than your requirement and be able to handle your data footprint using multiple, but not an unreasonable amount of discs.

No matter which solution you choose, if you are targeting multiple decades, you must save not only the media, but ideally the drive, computer and software used to archive. There is no guarantee that any of the existing technology will be relevant or backward compatible across several decades.

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[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I'm thinking of using a HDD and keeping it at work, which is climate controlled. I'd bring it back every few months to sync the latest.

Since it's constantly being used, I'm pretty confident it'll be usable as a backup if my NAS fails, so it only needs to be "shelf stable" for a few months at a time. If you're retired or something, a safe deposit box at your local bank should do the trick.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 days ago

I have a cloud backup, so this isn't about a critical loss of data. It's about an accessible copy that isn't encrypted and a layman could get the data off.

If my house burns down and I lose the copy, I can restore the data from the cloud backup (so long as I'm not in the house when it burns).

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[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (5 children)

In your scenario, I'd be looking at ZFS or BTRFS for your live data, especially when taking photos into account. They'll self-repair files that may run into decay issues, which I've seen a lot of with photos in all formats. Since you already keep off-site backups, I'd then just keep an extra drive around that you snapshot to from time to time.

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[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 days ago (3 children)

This is why I do my first-level of backups with rsnapshot. It backs up to the plain filesystem using rsync and uses hard-links to de-dup between backups. No special filesystem, no encryption, restore is just an 'rsync' away.

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[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (5 children)

ZFS with automatic snapshots and scrubbing. This will keep as many and as old snapshots as your like. It'll ensure the files don't rot. It'll ensure the media doesn't die, so long as you have enough redundancy and you replace disks as they die. This is what I'd trust for long term storage because I think I understand how and why it works. It should last as long as I feed it disks. If I delete something, I should be able to restore it from a snapshot. The hardware doesn't need to be anything fancy. Just a Pi 4/5 with a couple of WD Elements would be fine. Could add more disks for more redudnancy. I'm running 2-disk residency.

You don't have to touch the software if it's not exposed to the Internet. Whatever works today on it will work 20 years from now, so long as the hardware works. A couple of spare Pis, SD cards and power supplies should let it last for decades.

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