this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2024
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The question that everyone has been dying to know has been answered. Finally! What will scientists study next?

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[–] PetteriPano@lemmy.world 226 points 2 years ago (8 children)

The theorem holds true. The theorem states that the monkey has infinite time, not just the lifetime of our universe.

That's just lazy science to change the conditions to make sensational headlines. Bad scientists!

[–] Botzo@lemmy.world 107 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This just in: scientists disprove validity of thought experiment; philosophers remain concerned that they've missed the point.

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[–] 0x0@programming.dev 11 points 2 years ago

the monkey has infinite time

Use an infinite number of monkeys instead?

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[–] fjordbasa@lemmy.world 60 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times??

You stupid monkey!

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[–] shrugs@lemmy.world 53 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

So, while the Infinite Monkey Theorem is true, it is also somewhat misleading.

Is it though? The Monkey Theorem should make it understandable how long infinity really is. That the lifetime of the universe is not long enough is nothing unexpected IMHO, infinity is much (infinitely) longer. And that's what the theorem is about, isn't it?!

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[–] SlamWich@lemmy.world 44 points 2 years ago (5 children)

This is clownery, humanity is infinite monkeys, and we wrote Hamlet ages ago.

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[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 40 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yeah, that’s why we need at least... two of them.

[–] eager_eagle@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (11 children)

the paper used the entire population (200 thousand) and would take some 10 ^ 10 ^ 7 heat deaths of the universe

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 40 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It could happen the very first time a monkey sat down at a typewriter. It's just very unlikely.

[–] adarza@lemmy.ca 16 points 2 years ago (5 children)

from the wiki article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

If there were as many monkeys as there are atoms in the observable universe typing extremely fast for trillions of times the life of the universe, the probability of the monkeys replicating even a single page of Shakespeare is unfathomably small.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 36 points 2 years ago (12 children)

... the probability of the monkeys replicating even a single page of Shakespeare is unfathomably small.

But not zero.

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[–] Overshoot2648@lemm.ee 33 points 2 years ago (1 children)

How is this a study? It's just basic probability on a bogo sort style algorithm.

[–] Yaysuz@lemm.ee 14 points 2 years ago

It’s not a “study”, it’s just 2 mathematicians having some fun. The paper is a good read, and as a math teacher I see a lot of pedagogical values in such publications.

[–] ech@lemm.ee 27 points 2 years ago

it is also somewhat misleading

...what? No it isn't. Restricting the premise from infinite to any finite amount of time completely negates it. That doesn't prove it's "misleading", it proves anyone that thinks it does has no idea what they're talking about.

[–] onnekas@sopuli.xyz 26 points 2 years ago (1 children)

There's still a chance that a monkey will type it on the first attempt. It's just very small.

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[–] SimpleMachine@lemmy.world 25 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Ignoring the obvious flaw of throwing out the importance of infinity here, they would be exceedingly unlikely but technically not unable. A random occurrence is just as likely to happen on try number 1 as it is on try number 10 billion. It doesn't become any more or less likely as iterations occur. This is an all too common failure of understanding how probabilities work.

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[–] irotsoma@lemmy.world 20 points 2 years ago

Lifetime of the universe is infinitely less than infinite time. So they solved for the wrong problem. Of course it may take longer than the life of the universe, or it may happen in a year. That's the whole point of the concepts of infinity and true randomness. Once you put a limit on time or a restriction on randomness, then the thought experiment is broken. You've totally changed the equation.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 19 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The whole point of the thought experiment is that you have infinite monkeys.

[–] Zorque@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)
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[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago (4 children)

I don't think so, because if you had infinite monkeys an infinite number of them would get it on the first try.

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[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 19 points 2 years ago

But we aren't talking about one monkey. We are talking about infinite monkeys.

Infinity is already a loaded concept in our universe.

[–] MentallyExhausted@reddthat.com 19 points 2 years ago

It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times? You stupid monkey!

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 19 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The statement isn't about "A" monkey. It's about an infinite amount of monkeys.

[–] eager_eagle@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago (2 children)

As such, we have to conclude that Shakespeare himself inadvertently provided the answer as to whether monkey labour could meaningfully be a replacement for human endeavour as a source of scholarship or creativity. To quote Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 3, Line 87: “No”.

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[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 17 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

Well you're not supposed to just have one. It's supposed to be a thousand monkies at a thousand typewriters.

Now do the Mythbusters thing and figure out how many monkies and typewriters it would take for them to write Hamlet in just under a year. Don't just solve the myth; put it to the test!

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[–] BaneOfStuff@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago (2 children)
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[–] dudenas@slrpnk.net 14 points 2 years ago

They forgot the lifespan of the monkey, those thought experimenters.

[–] betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago

Strong entry for an Ig Nobel Prize if nothing else.

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The author is so stupid, the monkey will of old age long before the universe ends.

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[–] mlg@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (4 children)

That's because they only considered one monkey.

You need a thousand monkeys working at a thousand typewriters.

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[–] Kethal@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago

Use infinite monkeys.

[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 2 years ago (3 children)

So the secret to this thought experiment is to understand that infinite is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is...

The lifespan of the universe from big bang to heat death (the longest scenario) is a blink of an eye to eternity. The breadth and size of the universe -- not just what we can see, but how big it is with all the inflation bits, even as its expanding faster than the speed of light -- just a mote in a sunbeam compared to infinity.

Infinity itself looks flat and uninteresting. Looking up into the night sky is looking into infinity – distance is incomprehensible and therefore meaningless. And thus we don't imagine just how vast and literally impossible infinity is.

With an infinite number of monkeys, not only will you get one that will write out a Hamlet script perfectly the first time, formatted exactly as you need it, but you'll have an infinite number of them. Yes, the percentage of the total will be very small (though not infinitesimally so), and even if you do a partial search you're going to get a lot of false hits. But 0.000001% of ∞ is still ∞. ∞ / [Graham's Number] = ∞

It's a lot of monkeys.

Now, because the monkeys and typewriters and Shakespeare thought experiment isn't super useful unless you're dealing with angels and devils (they get to play with infinities. The real world is all normal numbers) the model has been paired down in Dawkin's Weasel ( on Wikipedia ) and Weasel Programs which demonstrate how evolution (specifically biological evolution) isn't random rather has random features, but natural selection is informed by, well, selection. Specifically survivability in a harsh environment. When slow rabbits fail to breed, the rabbits will mutate to be faster over generations.

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