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Northern Irish Protestant loyalists are essentially Englishman cosplayers. Just look at their Orangeman parades, with their bowler hats and Masonic aprons.
Englishmen now? Scotland would like their Presbyterians back 😉 .
I'd suggest that we do not. How about we split the difference, and drop them off halfway between Belfast and Stranraer, say?
In the sea? Deal 🤝.
Nah, they're nutters with very weird ideas about Britishness, Irishness & everything else, but they no more look to the English for ideas about their own identity & how to manifest it than the English look to NI loyalists as a guide.
If anything they tend to rather despise Englishness, seeing their own culture as the one true, loyal holdout to the Union.
The aprons do seek to emulate Masonic regalia, but the ideals of the Orange Order are entirely contrary to those of Freemasonry, which in any case is not specifically English or even British.
As in, Northern Irish cosplaying English or English cosplaying Northern Irish? If it's the latter, Northern Ireland is not made up of English planters contrary to popular belief, nor is it in the UK because it was "stolen" by the English
Northern Irish Protestants playing English, or affecting an exaggerated Englishness to differentiate themselves from the Papists and their ways
This is very true.
My theory is that a lot of it in Northern Ireland is actually just paramilitaries trying to get what they want. This happened during brexit as well over the sea border. The areas where the rioting happened in Belfast also had big signs saying "THIS AREA NEEDS MORE SOCIAL HOUSING" and suddenly the solution for the riots that the Deputy First Minister comes up with is an agreement for more social housing. Also that random white-owned estate agents being attacked smells fishy to me.
Paramilitaries are always involved in any trouble & unrest that goes on here. They're a blight on our communities.
Aye. Although I think they mainly operate in areas where the policing is less effective. Although it's probably a chicken and egg scenario - Is the bad policing because the paramilitaries are there? Or are the paramilitaries there because of the bad policing
It therefore seems plausible to suggest that the anomaly of the English – a powerful majority which often perceives itself as overlooked and ignored among the British nations – might play a role in explaining the current wave of protests and riots.
Interesting
Marco Antonsich, Reader in Political Geography, Loughborough University, Michael Skey Lecturer in Media and Communications, Loughborough University
I don't know how credible this makes his opinion.
I don’t know how credible this makes his opinion.
Because Loughborough is known for it's sports?
“The riots in our country don’t count because it was just a few racist weirdos.”
I think thenpoibt was more that it had a sectarian tinge, rather than being a left/right divide like elsewhere. So, maybe for different reasons than England. However, disaffected youth is always going to be at the core. The rise in middle aged rioters is a worrying trend.
One obvious reason the author doesn't explore is that neither Wales nor Scotland has ever experienced mass immigration nor profound demographic changes in their population.
Scotland remains 92.87% white (2022), Wales 94.2% (2021), compared to England at 81% (2021).
In Scotland, 2.2% identity as Muslim, 0.4% as Hindu, 0.1% as Jewish.
In England, 6.7% identify as Muslim, 1.8% as Hindu, 0.5% as Jewish.
Scotland and Wales are therefore much more homogenous as populations. They're whiter, less religious, and from similar backgrounds. They're not as diverse as England is and therefore don't have the challenges of community cohesion and social solidarity that England does.
It therefore doesn’t have the levels of intra- and inter-communal diversity which can provoke the kinds of tensions we've seen playing out in the streets of England over recent years, whether in Hindutva-Muslim ethnoreligious violence in Leicester or these anti-Islam and racist riots in recent weeks.
Scotland's sense of its national identity has also not been challenged to the same extent as in England. Nor has a patriotic attitude towards Scottishness been derided as hateful, bigoted or xenophobic, as it has in England. (This sometimes leads to highly funny events, though, like when ScotNats try to claim they were victims of the British Empire.)
Racism is mostly unrelated to actual immigration. In Germany the east has comparable immigration percentages to Scotland but leads the nation in fascist poll numbers by a huge margin. Economic factors are orders of magnitude more important
The least they see different people the more they fear them.
Yeah if they would meet more immigrants in person and not only in the fear mongering of social media or the right wing press there would be less racism.
Even just brits who came from immigration generations ago it would help
Economic factors don't correlate either. It's tied directly to mentions in the media.
Glasgow is only 78% white and more diverse than many of the towns that rioted.
| Town/City | % White Population |
|---|---|
| Belfast | 96.7% |
| Tamworth | 95.3% |
| Blackpool | 94.6% |
| Plymouth | 93.1% |
| Rotherham | 90.7% |
| Hull | 89.7% |
| Liverpool | 84.8% |
| Glasgow | 78.6% |
| Bristol | 78.1% |
| Manchester | 66.3% |
| Birmingham | 57.9% |
It also takes on more asylum seekers than any other council, and Scotland as a whole takes on more refugees per capita.
"However, across the whole of the UK, only 1,960 refugees were brought to Britain through the scheme during 2020 and 2021 – meaning Scotland’s share totalled 13 per cent, well above the population share of 8.15 per cent."
"As of 11 July 2022 a total of 21,256 visas have been issued naming a Scottish sponsor – more than 20% of the UK total, and the highest number per head of population in the UK. Scotland is currently providing sanctuary for over 7,000 people, two-thirds of whom applied under the Scottish super sponsor scheme. This exceeds the 3,000 the Scottish Government committed to welcome when the scheme launched in March."
Playing to the crowd I s’pose.
Claptrap otherwise.
‘Yea they happen in Northern Ireland but it was like, the Northern Ireland’s who are British loyalists so it totally doesn’t matter”
Not sure if you heard, but Ireland had this big thing over the English living there. Northern Irish protestants are English.
Northern Irish protestants are English.
Ulster was settled by English and Scots 400 years go, so if that is English to you fair enough. I can only hope your education wasn’t expensive.
You don't belong here, reactionary. Would you tell First Nations Americans that the white Europeans occupying their lands are real Americans, representative of them? Do you tell Palestinians that their occupiers are Palestinians?
Like I don't understand why you'd bring such an obviously ignorant take to the table - do you genuinely know nothing of why it's Ireland and Northern Ireland? Do you know nothing of the Troubles? Do you think the violence and ethnoreligious lines just disappeared when the good Friday agreement was signed? Do you not know about them because your education was inexpensive?
I think you’ve forgotten what the article is about and perhaps in anger, entered into a bit of performative leftism.
If you want to argue against my position that the article is claptrap, hand picked for a welsh audience, let’s go.
If you want to get into a fight, as you seem determined so to do, over broader and unrelated topics like colonialism and imperialism, there are plenty of people who will indulge you, but I will not.
To be fair, you were the one who was quick to jump to insults.
Your position is based on your assumption that unionists in northern Ireland are representative of Irish people rather than English people, despite an ongoing race war over their englishness. Catholic and protestant communities are still walled off from each other to maintain the relative peace. The idea that imperialism and colonialism are some unimportant detail of the past is preposterous, they're ongoing issues that make up the core of northern Irish politics.
this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2024
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