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Fake news.
Both Windows and Linux have their respective SIGTERM and SIGKILL equivalents. And both usually try SIGTERM before resorting to SIGKILL. That's what systemd's dreaded "a stop job is running" is. It waits a minute or so for the SIGTERM to be honoured before SIGKILLing the offending process.
Also fake because zombie processes.
I once spent several angry hours researching zombie processes in a quest to kill them by any means necessary. Ended up rebooting, which was a sort of baby-with-the bath-water solution.
Zombie processes still infuriate me. While I'm not a Rust developer, nor do I particularly care about the language, I'm eagerly watching Redox OS, as it looks like the micro kernel OS with the best chance to make to it useful desktop status. A good micro kernel would address so so many of the worst aspects of Linux.
Zombie processes are already dead. They aren't executing, the kernel is just keeping a reference to them so their parent process can check their return code (waitpid).
All processes becomes zombies briefly after they exit, just usually their parents wait on them correctly. If their parents exit without waiting on the child, then the child gets reparented to init, which will wait on it. If the parent stays alive, but doesn't wait on the child, then it will remain zombied until the parent exits and triggers the reparenting.
Its not really Linux's fault if processes don't clean up their children correctly, and I'm 99% sure you can zombie a child on redox given its a POSIX OS.
Zombie processes are hilarious. They are the unkillable package delivery person of the Linux system. They have some data that must be delivered before they can die. Before they are allowed to die.
Sometimes just listening to them is all they want. (Strace or redirect their output anywhere.)
Sometimes, the whole village has to burn. (Reboot)
RedoxOS would likely never become feature complete enough to be a stable, useful and daily-drivable OS. It's currently a hobbyist OS that is mainly used as a testbed for OS programming in Rust.
If the RedoxOs devs could port the Cosmic DE, they'd become one of the best Toy OS and maybe become used on some serious projects . This could give them enough funds to become a viable OS used by megacorps on infrastructures where security is critical and it may lead it to develop into a truly daily drivable OS.
Clicking end task in windows task manager has definitely let the hanging task live in its non-responsive state for multiple hours before.
Been a while since I've been on Windows but I distinctly remember some button to kill a task without waiting. Maybe they removed it to make Windows soooo much more user friendly.
Off the top of my head: right click the task and hit end process. That has literally never failed me. Back in windows XP it might sometimes not actually kill the process but then there was always the "kill process tree" button to fall back on.
The normal Windows task manager's 'end task' button just politely asks the app to close - but then later will tell the user if the app is unresponsive, and offer to brutally murder it instead.
There is also the sysinternals Process Monitor, which is basically 'expert' version of the task manager. Procmon does allow you to just kill a task outright.
SIGTERM is the graceful way tho? It nicely asks programs to please close and cleanup. Unlike SIGKILL, which bombs the shop and creates orphans.
Yup. And you can kill processes in Windows to in the task manager. Or probably with a Powershell command too, but nobody's gonna learn Powershell LOL.
There's nearly always equivalent functions in both Linux and Windows, just in Windows you gotta click around in more bullshit forms and shit to find stuff. Or learn Powershell, but again, LOL. They are both OSes after all, they do similar things. Just one might do them better than the other.
Why u gotta hate on PowerShell like that? I like it. π
It might be nice and all that (I wouldnβt know), but itβs not a sub- nor superset of glorious POSIX
Probably because it's the scripting language equivalent to Clippy. Ref.: Approved "verbs"
Boy oh boy would you hate AppleScript. This is what I have to type to throw files in the trash instead of deleting them.
tell application βFinderβ to delete POSIX file β/full/fucking/path/to/fileβ
And we give steam a fewilliseconds to comply, so IDK what they're complaing about...
Please end your process. You have ten milliseconds to comply.
Steam is clunky... Exit -> Oh you want to exit? Let me launch a new window letting you know I'm shutting down and take about 20 seconds while I was sitting here idle before you asked to shutdown.
See you tomorrow where I'll validate your games again. Just in case!
?
You're supposed to close Steam via menu or systray. If you run it in cli, you see that it cleans then a whole bunch up for a few seconds.
Windows' might be complex, but it is NOT graceful. If you have notepad open with unsaved text, then shutdown will never shut down - but nothing on the screen will make this obvious to a non-technical person.
Unless there are security updates to install, then everything will be mercilessly killed
SIGTERM is a graceful request to the application to terminate itself and despite their names kill and killall default to SIGTERM (also useful to send other signals to processes, like START, STOP and NOHUP).
kill -9 though...
"You should terminate yourself, NOW!"
Almost every time I restart my Windows PC from an update, it sits on the "closing apps screen" or "restarting" screen then gives up completely and I have to force it to shut down/restart
And, just about every other time I restart with an update, it closes apps and then just fully shuts down after the update!
It's super graceful! π
EVERY TIME!!
"A program is preventing Windows from shutting down"
The program : A generic non-descript white box icon with no title.
Clicking shutdown/restart anyway becomes standard procedure at this point.
Linux actually also has a graceful shutdown process. It tells apps its shutting down by sending SIGTERM, and its up to each process to flush data asap, do whatever they gotta do, and then shut down.
If they don't listen then linux will indeed pull out the ~~baseball bat~~ ~~chainsaw~~ katana and make processes die whether they want to or not.
The number of times I have had the Windows shutdown process tell me βplease close <some windows process that I never opened> before shutting downβ is fucking annoying. Wipe your own ass, Windows.
Bonus points if that exact dialogue is the cause. Had that happen more than once. No idea how
The funniest one is when it tells you this but by the time you get back to close the ones that didn't close they've already closed on their own. Confused Travolta.gif
Every computer should have a hard cutoff power switch, when thrown it cuts all physical electricity.
Off means off.
The current trend of soft power buttons, parasitic loads to service impi, or management engines wol, etc is just bad practice and removes agency from the user.
Who hasn't wanted to turn off a laptop to put it in a bag only for the shutdown to trigger an update that takes 10m whole your running late, so the laptop overheats. Or worse, the laptop turns on while in the bag!
The fact windows has a poor ability to apply updates live or In a a/b fashion is no excuse for soft poweroff buttons. Sure it's nice to flush file system write through caches, but Ive been burned by fake power off far more then incomplete file writes.
This is why I'm only interested in laptops with removable batteries but it's become rarer and rarer.
Meanwhile I click that "shut down anyway" button immediately. Fuck you Outlook.
EarlyOOM is your friend. Tweak it to save the most important stuff and kill irrelevant stuff first when low on memory.
Firefox is becoming the villain.
echo b > /proc/sysrq-trigger