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If you are a Libertarian and hold liberty as your core value, why do you not believe in universal healthcare? Nothing impacts liberty more than sickness and death. (lemmy.world)

submitted 3 months ago by Camzing@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

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[-] Hacksaw@lemmy.ca 7 points 3 months ago

Damn, you'd have to be completely brain dead to still believe anything is more efficient than single payer healthcare. The US has the worst outcomes for the highest cost in terms of life expectancy. Same with roads, utilities, schools etc... the more you privatise the more expensive things get for a lower quality product.

A well regulated, competitive market is good for many things, but for others it's atrocious. An unregulated market has never produced good outcomes on any scale larger than the board of directors.

If you're seriously summarizing the libertarian agenda then I can't believe any one over 14 could hold these ideas unless they were VERY sheltered from reality.

[-] HANN@sh.itjust.works 12 points 3 months ago

There is no need to be condescending or rude. I'm trying to share my ideas and have a healthy discussion so maybe we can learn from each other.

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

If you want a healthy discussion, you need better arguments.

Competition is inherently meaningless in the context of healthcare. What are you going to do, shop around while you're having a heart attack? Also, with single payer, the government is not involved in your healthcare directly. Compare that with the current system where insurance companies often decide if you're worth the treatment or, if you're under or uninsured, you get to carry the debt until you die.

[-] HANN@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 months ago

I think part of the problem is the blurred lines between routine healthcare and emergencies. You are right, if you are having a heart attack insurance should step in to help you front the unexpected large cost. But for expected care like dentist visits you can and absolutely should shop around.

I like your point about insurance getting to decide but I think it's important to note you can still get treated even if insurance doesn't pay. Or you can sue them if you feel they should pay. You make some good points though.

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

Thanks.

A couple of things you might not have considered:

Preventative care. If you have insurance that covers checkups, screenings, etc. then you get that benefit. If you don't have the insurance and can't afford the out of pocket expense, you skip. The issue is that then people wait until they're in really bad shape before seeking treatment meaning that outcomes are worse and treatment is much more expensive than if the illness had been caught earlier. Who pays for that? We all do through increased premiums.

This doesn't happen in a well-run single payer system.

But for expected care like dentist visits you can and absolutely should shop around.

Why? I'm not seeing any benefit to your idea vs single payer dental. It's not like your mouth isn't a part of your body or that dental issues don't effect your overall wellbeing.

Or you can sue them if you feel they should pay.

If someone can't afford insurance, what makes you think they can afford a lawyer?

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this post was submitted on 19 May 2024

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