excellent thread all around. excellent work from our comrades on lemmygrad. thank you to our mod for putting up the firewall between us and lemm.ee
some highlights
I haven’t only read Wikipedia, I’ve read things such as interviews from former Chinese citizens saying that Google was banned, and on their search engine the tiennamen square never existed. Also, how is China becoming more communist? The government getting profits from wage-slavery isn’t becoming more communist, it’s becoming the center of capitalism. Even if the government weren’t making direct profits from wage-labor, they still make profits from things like taxes and corporations buying land. When the government is making profits from capitalism, they won’t go socialist.
You do know the Tiennamen square is the literal most famous place in China right? It’s the place where there is this super famous building that is one of the country’s symbol and that almost every content about China ever can’t help but have at least one picture of.
So saying that the name of the place is censored in China is completely ridiculous.
As pointed out by others, the event that you are referring to is known in China as the june 4th incident so yes, of course if you type Tiennamen in the search bar you won’t find it, when you look up something on a non-english website maybe try to look up how the thing you’re looking for is called in the site’s language instead of assuming it’s called the same way in english you westernbrained monkey.
Why do you enjoy sucking your own dick?
Because I don’t have the reading comprehension skills of a fucking carrot.
Why do you not have the reading comprehension of a fucking carrot?
Marx said that the state was inherently oppressive. But I guess I missed the part where he said that it doesn’t matter if the party brands itself as communist.
If you bake a cake and you have this magnificent idea in your head; do you gather all the ingredients and then presto magic you have a beautiful cake in front of you? Or is there some sort of process that’s missing? Some sort of transitionary period?
There’s a reason it’s called Marxist-Leninism too, older works can be superseded or reanalyzed by newer works in a more refined context.Baking doesn’t cook down the ingredients and claim it’s heating them up.
In that case, why do they call it oven when you of in the cold food of out hot eat the food?
You could call any machine anything, yet it doesn’t become the thing.
Yes it does. A name inherently defines the characteristics of whatever it’s being used for. For example, the names your mother calls me during sex defines the intrinsic nature of our relationship, that is me being the oppressive dom authority figure (because I’m a tankie), and her the submissive proletariat.
Marx said that the state was inherently oppressive. But I guess I missed the part where he said that it doesn’t matter if the party brands itself as communist.
Where did he say that? Can you quote the passage?
The executive of the modern state is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie.
-the Communist manifestoWhere in that quote does it say that, to use your words, ‘the state was inherently oppressive’?
While this quote does not encapsulate marx’s entire view on the state, it shows that Marx sees that the state is bourgeois and therefore antagonistic to the proletariat.
chatgpt answer if I’ve ever seen one.
The state is inherently antagonistic to the proletariat, because their controlling society gives rise to them creating their own class within the bourgeoisie.
Ehhhhhhhht wrong. What did Engles say about the state in On Authority? There’s literally a whole ass book called State and Revolution that you definitely haven’t read.
Lol “creating their own class within the bourgeoisie” 😭 I bet the smug was on a milli when you typed that outPower = authority is wild. Was freeing slaves authoritarian because the majority didn’t support it?
READ THE BOOKS MOTHERFUCKER 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
I personally view [freedom of a populace] as that if you can’t allow people to see other viewpoints, then material conditions don’t matter. As John Stuart Mill said in On Liberty, the person’s ability to choose for themself is more important than an alleged better living condition. Furthermore, I see that if China were so much better, they would let their people see the alternative. By not letting their people see something they allege is worse, they prove it is better.
Said by someone who has never really been hungry,
Ha yes, I’m sure having fucking google make the homeless in NY city sooo much better off than the peoples living in nice cheap apartments in Beijing. Tell me you’ve never been poor without telling me you’ve never been poor. 🤡
Again, I do not argue for capitalism, I agree with Stalin on this quote. I’m saying that I can go into whatever forum I want, and say that Joe Biden is committing genocide, and I don’t disappear, I don’t “kill myself” in my hotel room. I’m not defending capitalism, as I am a communist. The condition in which the worker lives is irreconcilable the universal liberty, however if China is socialism, in terms of liberty, they would be the same. I believe that socialism could be so much better. I believe that China could be so much better and it will be someday. But the state will not allow it.
You have to be a troll. But - you’re a pretty funny one. A Boeing whistleblower ‘killed himself in a hotel room’ literally just last week. You can yell at Joe Biden however much you want, he’s still gonna commit genocide without blinking.
for context, the Stalin quote: "It is difficult for me to imagine what ‘personal liberty’ is enjoyed by an unemployed person, who goes about hungry, and cannot find employment. Real liberty can exist only where exploitation has been abolished, where there is no oppression of some by others, where there is no unemployment and poverty, where a man is not haunted by the fear of being tomorrow deprived of work, of home and of bread. Only in such a society is real, and not paper, personal and every other liberty possible" (https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1936/03/01.htm)
Let me simplify it for you. It doesn’t matter if they allegedly have better material conditions when they can’t view information contrary to the state.
Hey y’all it doesn’t matter if you lift billions of people out of poverty and they never have to worry about certain material conditions and therefore improve their quality of life, what makes a society better is being able to “view information contrary to the state”.
“This society is great. I’m glad every source is monitored by the Chinese government, that’s how you know they’re factual.”
This but unironically
do check out the full thread, as always our comrades on lemmygrad are both intelligent and graceful.
liberals are a gift
🚄👷🧑🔧🧑🏭🚃🚃
More and more I think Biden is worse than Trump. Here's why:
When Biden started his presidency, he was already a war criminal with the blood of at least a million Iraqi people and idk how many Yemeni people on his hands. While Trump continued the murderous US foreign policy, he didn't have time to kill as many people. Biden has the higher body count when it comes to war and imperialism
While in office Biden has started a proxy war in Ukraine, greenlit a coup in Pakistan, and waged a genocide in Palestine. Trump didn't do those during his term.
Under Trump, we had halfassed covid safety measures -- partial lockdowns, covid unemployment, mask mandates, free and accurate tests. Under Biden, we lost all of those in order to go to a once-a-year vaccine-only strategy even when it became clear that the virus was mutating too quickly for that to work. More people have died of Covid under Biden than under Trump, and even more have contracted debilitating Long Covid.
Now it is certainly possible points 2 and 3 would have been done under Trump too, just as badly. But I do not see any wag Trump could have done worse than Biden on these -- Biden has already been disastrous. But had it been Trump who were doing 2 and 3, Liberals would have had a kneejerk and performative opposition to them which could have resulted in at least materially better outcomes. When Trump embraced antimasking, liberals masked out of spite and that helped us collectively fight covid. When Biden embraced antimasking, liberals abandoned masking out of fear that acknowledging tbr pandemic was still going on would give Trump a political talking point, and they helped spread covid. Biden did more to normalize a forever plague than Trump did.
So yeah. Biden is materially worse than Trump and the only reason liberals can't see this is that they have been trained to only consider rhetoric, not material conditions.
The liberal rejection of history on full display. In an irl argument I had a few weeks ago, a guy I know tried to act like the KMT takeover of Taiwan 70 years ago was irrelevant to modern-day politics.