189
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 17 Mar 2024
189 points (98.0% liked)
News
23282 readers
3822 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
What support? There was no support. Even the article you posted goes into detail how the state never followed through with it plans to provide the critical infrastructure needed for treatment, for alternatives to jail or prison, or anything else that 110 promised. They just made drugs legal and called it a day.
Again, you need the support systems if people actually sought treatment, but they never did seek treatment.
We didn't have long lines of people waiting for non-existent treatment centers, out of 16,000 people ticketed under 110, less than 150 sought treatment, which was well within current capacity.
Why would anyone seek help if there is none? Do you even hear yourself? Lol
There is existing help, 110 was to provide ADDITIONAL funding, presumably to assist with what was expected to be a mass influx of new patients.
That influx never happened, because treatment was 100% optional.
Did you even read the article you posted?
Better, I read it and I've been living in the middle of it since it took effect in 2021.
We have always had addiction services, those haven't gone anywhere. 110 was to provide additional funding for them, again, under the presumption that more dollars would be needed because more people would seek treatment.
Funding which, surprise, wasn't needed because people would rather get high than get clean.
Causing a MASSIVE increase in overdose calls:
https://www.opb.org/article/2024/01/28/data-show-overdoses-deaths-rising-in-oregon/
"In 2019, 280 people died of a drug overdose in Oregon. Fatalities rose every year after, more than tripling by 2022, when 956 died. And last year, even more people died, according to preliminary data. Each month the number has been higher than the previous year, reaching 628 in June. The state is still compiling data for 2023, but if the trends continue, the total would reach 1,250 deaths from an overdose."
So, again, keep in mind, 110 kicked in in 2021. 2019 was under the old rules.
Those are Oregon numbers as a whole, and just deaths, not emergency calls for overdoses. Portlabd had over 7,000 overdose calls in 2023 by itself:
https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/portland-fire-launches-overdose-response-program/283-5911d3f5-54f0-4c6b-9e01-0e0f1566c2b2o
"Last year, Portland Fire & Rescue responded to nearly 7,000 overdose calls. A third of them happened in the downtown core, according to the bureau."
Ah, yes, nothing better than ignoring the facts, cherry-picking data, and blaming the victims to confirm one’s own biases!
Interesting, however, that in the sources, that you, yourself, provide lies the reality which undermines your own argument. If you weren’t so blinded by your own biases, you’d actually see the reality of the situation.
It seems that you, too, are another casualty of your own agenda. How predictable.
I'm sorry my lived experience and cited sources don't meet your expectations.
Fortunately, the disaster that started when 110 took effect in 2021 has a chance to reverse itself once the repeal takes place.
Come on out to Portland for a bit and see how "blind" I am.
You’re not sorry, you’re projecting your denial and pain and frustration and lack of ability to form a coherent argument on me. But the fact remains that your own sources back up what I have been saying and, while I’m sorry for your troubles, they would have been addressed if 110 had been fully realized and it’s your State government that let you down not me. So you should direct your hostility where it belongs— at the government that continues to fail you, not some stranger in the internet that is pointing that out to you.
I really am sorry for what’s happening in Oregon because the state couldn’t manage to pull off the responsibilities mandated by this bill. I really am. They failed the people of their state and, in failing to prove this bill could work, the whole nation. In theory it was a good bill, but the state just didn’t follow through on all of its commitments they needed to in order to make it work.
But you ignoring all of that in order to blame the victims is bullshit, and your own sources that you have linked here explain that in great detail.
110 was NEVER going to work because, unlike the Portugal model, it never mandated treatment.
Here's a $100 fine, call the number to make it go away.
Your average addicts response?
https://youtu.be/dz4HEEiJuGo#t=1m46s
What we needed to do was what they ACTUALLY do in Portugal:
https://www.opb.org/article/2023/09/18/oregon-measure-110-portugal/
"In Portugal, drug users must appear before a commission that determines whether the person needs treatment or should pay a civil penalty.
“They don’t just assume that everybody will pop into treatment on their own,” Humphreys said.
And the system includes other measures that don’t exist in Oregon. For example, the commission could suspend the driver’s license of a cab driver until after treatment, he said, giving state officials leverage over users.
In Oregon, police officers write $100 citations that are not criminal penalties. Drug users are supposed to pay the fine or call a hotline to be assessed for treatment. But addicts often ignore the citation and don’t follow up with treatment, according to news reports."
Except that the Portugal model works, and especially because they actually provide the support that 110 was supposed to but failed to implement
Portugal works because they also have universal health care. :)
True, but they also have specific support systems for drug users that were set up to handle the sudden influx when they legalized drugs. Of course, the universal healthcare definitely helps!
But you’re kinda making my point for me. Oregon simply didn’t follow through with the “support” part of 110. If they had set all of that up and made it available when they actually made all the drugs legal, the outcome would’ve been very different.
Edit: this The Daily podcast from March 12 breaks it all down in great detail. I encourage you to give it a listen. I think you’ll find it in enlightening.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-daily/id1200361736?i=1000648884958
And, again, Oregon ALREADY HAS support for addicts. The additional money was for the NEW volume that never materialized.
We don't need to spend millions and millions of dollars for what turned out to be the 137 people who called the hotline. That can be easily absorbed by the infrastructure we alreaady have.
The problem is NOT "well, thousands of people want help and can't get it." The problem is "thousands of people don't want help."
NO IT DOESN’T
Oregon hardly has enough support to handle the volume for the pre-legalization need. 110 was supposed to build out a massive infrastructure to deal with the existing need and more, including legal off-ramps for those who do get arrested, and a lot more. NONE of this got implemented as it was supposed to be. And there was a massive increase in need. Of course nobody asked for it— IT WASNT AVAILABLE. What about this is so hard for you to understand?
Yet, you keep pretending like it already existed before, and that none of it being implemented had zero effect on the outcome. This is a flat out misrepresentation of the facts.
Saying that nobody wanted help is just a flat out lie. You can’t ask for help that isn’t there. And no, there isn’t help available if no one implements the systems. All you have to offer is circular logic, and I’ve laid out the facts. Even your own article proves you wrong. I’ve linked a podcast that explains it very simply for you to understand. At this point, you have known to blame but yourself for ignoring the truth.
The toll free number WAS available and 15,863 of those ticketed DID NOT CALL THE NUMBER.
All they had to do was call it. They never made it that far. The number was active, it was funded, it was ready to direct people to services.
137 out of 16,000 actually called it.
That is NOT an insurmountable number for what is already available:
https://www.oregon.gov/oha/hsd/amh/pages/addictions.aspx
Because they knew that there was no real help available.
The more you keep relying on that single point, the more you prove that you have no understanding of this bill, what it was supposed to do, and how it failed the people.
All you’re doing is using circular logic based off your own ignorance, and you have already cited sources and I have already cited sources that debunk your one and only claim.
You can keep asserting this false claim over and over, but all it does is prove that you’re both wrong and ignorant of the matter at hand.
There IS real help available, and if they had actually bothered calling the number, they would have been directed to it.
The facts prove you’re wrong. Your own links prove you’re wrong. The link I provided prove you’re wrong.
At this point either you’re completely diluted or you’re lying. At least lying to yourself. Frankly, you seem to be the one who needs help.
I’m blocking you. So don’t bother replying.
Again, help IS available. All they had to do was call the number.
See here:
https://www.oregon.gov/oha/hsd/amh/pages/addictions.aspx
Portugal never mandated treatment. It require a hearing by a local board made of experts including medical personelle. The quote you cited is clear about this, but you state otherwise. And the quote correctly notes that Oregon does have this or some of the other additional measure.
More importantly, what is missing from the quote, is the boards rarely ever forced people into treatment. The article you quote goes on to state the following:
If that quote didn't drive home the central principles, this one should:
We didn't do that. Forcing people into treatment was never the solution.
You're like Ray Charles if you think the issues in Portland are unique to Portland or that they began in 2021.
Portland wasn't a Max Headroom hellscape before 110.