“having another company eat the majority of the profit on content you create.” If they are summarizing and users don't need to click sure, but linking is a whole another level. If the media outlet can't survive with people ACTUALLY viewing the content on their site there is something wrong with the media outlets business.

According to Senator Peter Harder, the government expect Google and Meta to pay for as much as 30-35% of the news expenditures of Canadian news outlets as a result of Bill C-18. When the 25% labour journalism tax credit is added to the mix, that is as much as 60% of the costs of Canadian news covered by either the government or two foreign companies. Do you believe that is a healthy, sustainable approach?

So you have one company funding another to top them off to 60% of their costs covered?

During the Senate hearings, smaller Canadian media outlets such as Village Media warned that they would be forced to shut down due to Bill C-18 if Meta and Google exit the news market. Other such as Le Devoir cited data indicating that 70% of their website traffic comes from search and social media. How did you account for these risks? What do you say to Canadian media outlets who may be forced to shut down due to your legislation?

So if 70% of a sites traffic is coming from people actually clicking through Google and Facebook what are we solving for?

Long and short I would be very OK with the law demanding compensation for summaries but NOT for linking.. Linking is fundamental to discovering content and is essentially the phone book problem.

FB and Google DON'T get much value out of just a link.. Hence why they are SO willing to just turn it off.

Taking FB and Google out of the picture and assuming the internet had no search..

How would anyone find these media outlets? A list? ok if a list why would that list want to include news sites if it had to pay to include them?

Do you use an ad blocker? Do you go to news sites ? If so maybe YOU are the reason they are going out of business?

Might have to check that out.

Keep in mind my main opinion is that the LAW is written so broad and bad that it would essentially penalize any competitor to google or Facebook as a linking source.

The internet is literally based on linking, way back Netscape Navigator was THE BROWSER, and included a homepage with links to news and sites, then there was Yahoo, another mostly LIST based site.

Facebook doesn't really go out and link news, users share news they discover with others, IE word of mouth.

Any manipulation of rank I see as a separate issue, however this bill seems to convolute the two of them. Might be better as a separate bill about search bias, one about content summarization and lets drop the whole pay per link thing.

Like many bills that have GOOD parts we have to look at the whole and many bills and laws are just turd sandwiches..

skirt regulations that apply to broadcasters.

In fairness, they are probably more like newspapers, which are also not subject to broadcasting laws. In fact, I was reading through some newspaper archives (early 1900s) the other day. The newspapers contained pages upon pages of:

"Mr. and Mrs. James Smith hosted friends from the next town over this past weekend. A good time was had by all."

It turns out Facebook was invented centuries ago.

undefined> They all embed titles, summaries, pictures and sometimes whole pages. I think the conversation about linking in this context is a straw man.

I personally think it is the most dangerous aspect of the law and a major over reach and makes it costly poison for any popular site to link to Canadian news content even without a summary.

For a while money has been flowing away from news and into platforms. We need to shift money back from platforms to news. If the platforms paid reasonable taxes, maybe we could redistribute it from there to the news

Other than CBC, news has always been a subscription / pay service.. It seems people are not willing to pay for that now.. Other than CBC our taxes SHOULD NOT be going to Bell, Corus, Rogers, Quebecor, double check and note that Canadian monopolies OWN nearly all the news outlets in Canada.

Essentially what you are proposing is Canadians give MORE to these Canadian monopolies both from tax payers and from other businesses (all popular web platforms that link to them as the law is written)

We know that the platforms don’t do linking as in <a href=...>Click here</a>. They all embed titles, summaries, pictures and sometimes whole pages.

There isn't a trivial way to get those without media companies going out of their way to provide the information. If I go over to that article on nationalpost.com, I see multitudes of OpenGraph tags, such as <meta content="Ottawa pulls advertising, escalating showdown with Facebook and Instagram" property="og:title"/><meta content="https://smartcdn.gprod.postmedia.digital/nationalpost/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Pablo-Rodriguez-1.jpg" property="og:image"/>. OpenGraph, to be clear, is a protocol created by Facebook to standardize how web pages appear on their platform. If National Post wants links to their content to look like your example, that is entirely in their hands. Heck, it's less work.

(Of course, they won't do that, because that would be stupid. They'd rather make an embarrassing attempt to extort Facebook for free money because they have realized advertising is doomed and they don't know what to do about it).

They all embed titles, summaries, pictures and sometimes whole pages.

I see the title and picture on facebook, but I don't see a summary or the whole page. I see a comment from the publisher, which sometimes gives away the article, but that's up to the publisher.

The trouble here is Canadian News outlets want their cake and eat it to.

The Canadian government on behalf of Canadian News outlets is telling social media platforms like Facebook/google/instagram/twitter/Lemmy? And search engines? that they cannot benefit over the hard work of Candian News outlets.

Where this is at play is when you see news on one of these social platforms that is summarized and posted directly on that social platform, (think your Google feed, Facebook wall, twitter feed) thus users do not need to go to the News Outlets website directly and generate add revenue for the News Outlets. This is the profit loss for the News outlets and why they are pushing/pushed for this.

Where the Canadian government and Canadian News Outlets are "overreaching" IMO is telling these social platforms that even direct links to the News Outlets Website are not allowed unless the social media sites and search engines pay for the link.

This means as a Internet user you will no longer see links or summarized Canadian articles anywhere on the web including your search engines. Unless you make a effort to go to the News site directly.

A little anecdotal here.

What I find bonkers is News outlets pay to have their newspapers sit in a convenience store, so that individuals can grab the paper, pay for it, and read it.

So by this similarly, though very simplistic, I would think of the social media platforms and serach engines as the "convince stores", and the requirements being that News Outlets should pay to display their links in said "stores". This way when users click on the links the news outlets get their add revenue on their site, thus the customer "pays" for the articles indirectly with shown adds.

This would mean Canadians still see Canadian News, and News outlets get their cut as it's only viewable on their new sites directly. Not summarized buy the social platforms.

Just my two cents.