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[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 134 points 7 months ago

In two ways. They also killed the chances of further good deals. When they aren’t in power why would democrats ever want to negotiate with them

[-] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 86 points 7 months ago

Because democrats are willing to do their jobs.

[-] Psychodelic@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago

And here I thought Democrats even participating in a BS, "bipartisan" bill that only served to validate the xenophobia being put forth by the opposing party was appalling and a clear example of the utter failure they represent.

Then again, illegals is common vernacular now, so what the fuck do I even know, really.

I've voted for Dems my entire life, but you'll never catch me saying they "do their jobs". The party embarrasses me at nearly every opportunity; any support I have for/give to the party is despite its leadership, not because of it.

[-] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 4 points 7 months ago

Willing, and capable are different. They are politicians after all.

[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Rolling over for republicans is in their job description?!

... that explains a few things...

[-] kandoh@reddthat.com 27 points 7 months ago

When politics function correctly, that is what they are supposed to do in order to get concessions on other important things. Compromise leaves everyone unsatisfied.

[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

Compromise is supposed to come with consessions from BOTH sides, not just handing one side everything they actually want after they make an unreasonable request...

That's capitulation, not negotiation.

[-] Vorticity@lemmy.world 24 points 7 months ago

That's what the democrats were trying to do. Republicans tied funding for Ukraine and some other things to tightening border security. The democrats called their bluff. They said "Here's a border security bill that does what you've been asking for now let's get this all done". Republicans' made surprised Pikachu face and said "We didn't want it this way! We want it done by OUR president so he gets credit!" So, even though the Democrats were giving the Republicans what they've been asking for in exchange for things the Democrats wanted, the Republicans said "no".

[-] Wiz@midwest.social 5 points 7 months ago

Republicans never argue in good faith, and they always put power and politics over policy.

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[-] Clent@lemmy.world 20 points 7 months ago

No, but Republicans convincing you it is, is the primary requirement in a Republican's job description.

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[-] alilbee@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago

Oh yeah, they should do what the Republicans are doing and use a scorched earth, no compromise strategy! I mean, geez, look at all these huge legislative wins accomplished by this congress using this strategy. Maybe we can even have a cool purity-test driven speaker role, that's been working well for them! Anything else we should imitate that I'm forgetting? A demagogic, unrestrained president would definitely tie things up nicely.

Okay I'll stop being a sarcastic jerk now, but you get the point. This strategy from Republicans works wonders when it comes to obstructing and shutting things down, but you're never going to build anything with it. It's destructive at its core.

[-] TengoDosVacas@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

Do you think its a bad strategy for taking action that the people actually want?

[-] alilbee@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago

Sometimes, yep. A small handful of decades ago, "the people" would have wanted gay marriage banned forever. Before that, interracial marriage. Before that, women's suffrage. I want a system that enacts good, just law in a stable manner and while I always think democracy should be a part of any system I would be a part of, pure democracy has no effective way of ensuring minority rights.

That's answering your question in the abstract. For this situation specifically, of course I want democratic, progressive legislation passed. In fact, I want to maximize the amount of democratic progress over the longest period of time, to the point where I'm willing to take losses on smaller items for the bigger picture.

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[-] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 53 points 7 months ago

The last time they had a majority (first mandate of Obama if I recall?) they tried to work with the Republicans in good faith and they got nowhere so fast that the public voted them out from dissatisfaction.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I remember it.

[-] ultranaut@lemmy.world 25 points 7 months ago

It was a one person majority in the Senate that only lasted for a brief amount of time and was gone once healthcare reform ate up all of the time before Ted Kennedy died. They basically took what Mitt Romney had done at the state level and applied it federally, which is what Republicans claimed to want before they decided to call it Obamacare and pretend they didn't help craft it.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 20 points 7 months ago

The health care bill contained a series of things that are broadly popular when they were laid out individually. Package them together and call it "Obamacare" in the media and it was suddenly unpopular.

Tea Party astroturfing can't be understated, either. The GOP grabbed back power at just the right time to be able to gerrymander districts and then keep them gerrymandered up until now. We're only beginning to erode that back.

[-] doctorcrimson@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Technically, during the Obama Admin the Democrats had a senate supermajority for I think less than 2 months. During that time no substantial bills hit the senate floor that I recall, but I remember they approved a bunch of USPS locations which seemed odd to me. Politics are crazy but they're even weirder in retrospect.

[-] dhork@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago

Because you need 60 votes to do anything in the Senate.

[-] admiralteal@kbin.social 25 points 7 months ago

Only until the instant the Senate takes a simple majority vote to lower it to 50.

While the Senate has historically been a useful bulwark for pushing back against the creeping fascism of the GOP, it's also a matter of fact that it is an antidemocratic institution that in the longer term we're better off minimizing or eliminating. It's the House of Lords and we do not need a House of Lords in the modern era.

Though I would like to see proper reapportionment in the House of Reps first, including adding significantly more members.

[-] JoBo@feddit.uk 12 points 7 months ago

While the Senate has historically been a useful bulwark for pushing back against the creeping fascism of the GOP

Has it?

[-] admiralteal@kbin.social 0 points 7 months ago

Maybe. Maybe not. I won't come to the defense of that, it was more of a hedge.

[-] JoBo@feddit.uk 1 points 7 months ago

The argument works for the House of Lords, which has often acted as a moderating force (and loses power every time it does), despite its antidemocratic nature.

I think it's a non-starter for the Senate. It was deliberately constructed as a conservative brake on Congress, being heavily weighted to smaller (more rural) states which tend to be more conservative. True conservatism is obviously opposed to fascism but in practice, it isn't (and neither is liberalism if it is feeling threatened by socialism).

[-] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 1 points 7 months ago

But muh states rights!

[-] Tremble@sh.itjust.works 13 points 7 months ago

Because corporate dems are basically republicans. Our whole political system is right of center. With a few outliers.

[-] Monument@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 7 months ago

I commented this a while back, and I believe it wholeheartedly -
The current U.S. system is set up so that only two political parties can exist. In a perfect world, they would be rational, and represent differing facets of the voters values/goals. But in addition to not having a perfect world, through manipulation, degradation of the laws, and just human error/unintended consequences, we’ve wound up with a system where the two parties in power are largely funded by corporations, or those who have the resources to create PACs and launder their money into politics, and those groups represent roughly the same values and political goals.

So the political ‘game’ now is to acquire money to campaign (so you can get the votes) by appeasing the donors while appearing to do things that attract voters, because voting has not quite been manipulated to the point where money equals votes, yet. (Save for gerrymandering, which renders the voting ‘problem’ moot.)

I now believe politics is largely theatrical, and the media, also controlled by the interests that fund the political campaigns of politicians that do their bidding, works very hard to keep folks divided and arguing, rather than facing the real problem of their systemic disempowerment.

I am increasingly disillusioned that a solution to this problem is possible.

But anyway - I guess I’m saying I agree with you.

[-] xenomor@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago

Have you ever listened to Democrats? The leadership keeps saying that they believe we need a strong Republican Party for some reason.

[-] kandoh@reddthat.com 8 points 7 months ago

Imagine the soundbites if they said they wanted to destroy the opposition party.

[-] BakerBagel@midwest.social 5 points 7 months ago

GOP talking heads say the same thing all the time

[-] kandoh@reddthat.com 3 points 7 months ago

The difference between the GOP base and the Dem base.

[-] Daft_ish@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

The GOP had a sign that said "we are domestic terrorists." Can we stop caring what these radicalized disruptors think? Anyone who claims to be a moderate at this point is not welcome in my house none the less would I want to be on the same side as them.

[-] kandoh@reddthat.com 1 points 7 months ago

Lol, it's not the GOP base that the soundbite would be used against. It's the dem base, the people who open the new york times homepage on the way to do their wordle every morning that would see the headline 'DEMS SAY GOP DESTRUCTION AT HAND, "TOTAL ONE PARTY DOMINATION IF WE PLAY OUR CARDS RIGHT" ' that would gasp and be so rattled they forgot the word for Sunday in their Spanish Duolingo lesson.

[-] agitatedpotato@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

They say this because their lobbyists want nothing to change and if the Republicans are too weak, Democrats may actually have to make peoples lives better or the whole charade falls apart.

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[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

why would democrats ever want to negotiate with them

For the sheer joy of capitulation.

this post was submitted on 08 Feb 2024
751 points (97.8% liked)

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