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submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by KarnaSubarna@lemmy.ml to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

Mozilla is unhappy because the use of browser engines other than WebKit will be restricted to the EU, forcing them to develop two different apps.

For an independent browser like Firefox, managing two browsers is not easy, so it can be forgiven that this could be seen as almost harassment.

Also, the fact that the use of browser engines other than WebKit is limited to iOS means that the use of WebKit is still forced on iPadOS, which also increases the effort for Mozilla.

Source: https://iphonewired.com/news/746093/

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[-] Daxtron2@startrek.website 21 points 11 months ago
[-] LWD@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago

Not sure if it's a fallacy if it's about addressing people who have spent a ton on an ecosystem and can't just devote more money to buy the alternative and time to figure out the parts that aren't compatible

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world -3 points 11 months ago

What parts aren't compatible? And you can load Linux and Windows on all Mac's. You can also sell your iPhone and buy an android phone with money left over... getting out of the apple closed ecosystem is cheaper than sticking with it.

[-] NateNate60@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

For most people, time is not regarded to be free (i.e. not a cost). As a devoted Linux user, the adage that "Linux is only free if you don't value your time" is absolutely true.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago
[-] NateNate60@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Learning Windows is still a time cost. You're also losing your library of Mac software and quite a few interoperability features between your other Apple products.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago

??? So you're plan is to just say fuck it, and continue to be fucked over by apple? The fuck logic is that? Almost all software has a replacement in windows/Linux. I work in all 3 ecosystems, there is very little that lacks an alternative in each os. Sticking to osx/iOS is just a cop out.

[-] NateNate60@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

No. My argument is that if Apple isn't going to open up their ecosystem to genuine competition and genuine interoperability then they need to have their hand forced through regulation.

Telling people to just stop buying Apple products is a lazy, knee-jerk self-righteous response that ignores the realities of platform lock-in.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world -2 points 11 months ago

Good luck with that...I vote with my wallet instead of buying into fad shit.

[-] NateNate60@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

You seem to think that regulation doesn't work. Luckily, we have a test case set up for us in real-life.

In the United States, consumers relied on voting with their wallets. In the European Union, regulatory agencies forced Apple to take pro-consumer moves through regulation.

Now take a look at which approach produced results and which approach left consumers continuing to complain about the lack of interoperability and the lack of competition in Apple's walled garden.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Cool, tell me again where we are? And if you think legislation will actually be brought up and passed here in the states...

[-] deranger@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

Can’t do that on ARM. Windows on ARM sucks and there isn’t a good app ecosystem.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world -2 points 11 months ago

There isn't a good app ecosystem for arm on osx either? What's your point?

[-] deranger@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

You’re incorrect. Tons of apps are native ARM on Mac now, also rosetta2 emulation is really fast. Obviously not as fast as native ARM but it surprised me.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Most might be native but tell me what apps don't have an alternative on x86 and I'll agree with you.

[-] deranger@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago

Exclusivity isn’t the point. A healthy app ecosystem is what we’re discussing, which ARM on Mac has. It wasn’t great for 6 months or so, but it’s quite good now.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

??? No the whole discussion on this has been how people can't get out of the ecosystem. Which I've provided multiple ways to get out of it. There is really zero point to even bring up ARM MacBooks, because as you have said the ecosystem isn't exclusive.

[-] deranger@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

There isn't a good app ecosystem for arm on osx either? What's your point?

Did you forget what you said? This is what I’m responding to.

macOS (not osX for many years now) has a healthy app ecosystem, unlike windows for ARM.

And you can load Linux and Windows on all Mac's.

just install windows

My point is “install Windows” isn’t a valid option for anyone with an ARM Mac, so suggesting it is silly. Mac hasn’t made an x86 computer in a couple years.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Did you miss the part where I said sell it and buy a x86 machine and have money left over?

[-] NateNate60@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'm not the parent commenter, but Apple Silicon has much wider app support than ARM on Windows. There's also Rosetta, which works alright, I suppose. Not spectacularly and usually not anywhere near native performance but it's at least okay.

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago

You can't refund anything that's not physical, for one...

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Where did I say refund anything?

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

You asked what parts aren't compatible, and one answer is everything bought for Apple computers, iPhones, iPads, etc. Apps, media, anything that isn't subscription based.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

And windows/Android/Linux all have alternatives. This is not an excuse.

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago

What's the alternative to $5,000 of DRM encrypted media exclusively served by Apple?

The point of this thought experiment is to understand that sunk cost is a real thing outside of a fallacy.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

What media is served by apple only?

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago
[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

??? All of that is accessible on both other OS's

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago
[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

??? What's this supposed to be? Shit that's on the app store...also exists in the android store, usually it's a 1 to 1.

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 1 points 10 months ago

I (and other people) have already said that re-buying the same products and learning alternative ones is expensive in both time and money. That's the point.

And I don't know a ton of iOS killer apps but you would probably have to convince people with a ton of effort that Procreate is replaced by something on Android, let alone any other app I don't know about

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

And I've already pointed out that almost all products you buy are not OS specific...the license is for the software not the OS. So you don't have to rebuy, but that seems to be something the fanboys are missing.

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Every Apple mobile app only runs on Apple hardware. Unless you assume 100% luck or 100% foresight, which is rare, every app that runs on a different platform was written for that different platform in addition to the Apple one.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Where did I say that you can run ios apps directly on Android or osx dmgs on Windows? I never did, I said they almost always have versions of it that run on different platforms. There is a windows version of Photoshop....so your logic here is that osx version of Photoshop cannot run on Windows...no shit...

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

Okay, so you would advise someone who bought, say, Photoshop on a Mac OS to consider that cost sunk, and then to purchase what on Linux?

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Gimp for Linux. It's free even.

On top of that the Photoshop license is not os specific. You can use it for Windows or osx.

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

Gimp has a small subset of Photoshop features... That's... Common knowledge

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Ok? And Photoshop license isn't for just osx... you're literally proving the point that you can migrate but you don't want to because of some stupid allegiance to apple

[-] LWD@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

I... Don't like Apple at all. I'm engaging in a thing called a thought experiment, which is required to rationally assess why somebody might not want to throw away things they have purchased and devote both more time and more money to something that doesn't work as well as it.

So I don't know what all the cool killer Mac apps. Replace Photoshop with the name of a bunch of cool killer Mac apps, and repeat the question.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Well if you're playing devil's advocate then I guess ok? But that's a tough job on this one, as there are very little pros to sticking with apple.

[-] NateNate60@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago

No, it's not a sunk-cost fallacy.

If you already have a bunch of Apple stuff, it makes more sense to continue using Apple stuff, because switching would cost money and effort. You'd also lose access to the software library that you paid for.

Having a bunch of Apple stuff also makes buying more Apple stuff in the future a better value proposition because you gain access to features that you wouldn't otherwise have. Platform lock-in is not a sunk-cost fallacy. You're just uninformed and being smug about it.

The sunk cost fallacy only applies when stopping is free or the cost is low enough (in money or effort) that it makes more sense to quit than continue.

this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2024
775 points (98.7% liked)

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