484
Six teenagers in court over beheading of French teacher
(www.reuters.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2023
484 points (98.2% liked)
World News
39023 readers
779 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I'm sorry what? 2.5 years? Is that a joke? Those animals should never set foot outside prison walls again no matter their age.
Did you just read the headline and get outraged without pausing for even a second to think "2.5 years for murder and mutilation can't be right, I better read the article"?
None of that happened and you’re starting to look a lil racist, bruh.
He paid two students he’d never met before money for the information after telling them he was just going to hit him and shame him a bit.
C’mon bruh, you can do better than this.
Because people never change, especially 14 year olds. /s
You sound pretty eager to be xenophobic to me. They haven't been convicted yet, but you've already decided they committed an act equal to beheading, with full knowledge of what was about to happen, and deserving of being imprisoned forever, without needing to even hear their side of the story (which could easily be "I was 14 and a murderer demanded information that wouldn't have been difficult for them to find elsewhere").
We aren’t in the courts to decide that, the evidence is never going to be public for us to make that assumption
They weren’t involved in the killing, they are guilty of pointing him out.
So they were responsible for it
Yes but there's still limits on how long you can put minors in prison for certain things
Which is fair but 2.5 years seems pretty short for a religious beheading
Maybe, depends on the scope of their involvement. Most European countries have 10 years max for minors, even for premeditated murder.
They are getting 2.5 years for pointing out the teacher, not for beheading.
Correct
So children should go to jail for more than 2.5 years for pointing out a teacher?
Yes. When they’ve committed premeditated criminal conspiracy and that criminal act is premeditated religious assassination.
I see you're privy to some information that the media doesn't have, everywhere says he wanted to know where that teacher was to scare him. Where did you gather the information from that they were co-conspirators fully aware of the plan?
Well I’m not a lawyer but what does “premeditated criminal conspiracy” mean to you? If it was just pointing at someone why were they charged at all?
Dont worry, don't need to reiterate it, everyone knows you're not a lawyer.
Yes, they are responsible for pointing, not killing, glad you understand now.
Which part of “helped monitor his exit” did you not get? They stalked him with the intent to assist the assassination. By your logic, many people aren’t actually criminals because they’re not the ones who actually carried out the murder, they just directed it.
I’m not saying they should get the death penalty but what they did was heinous and deserves more than 2.5 years.
And yet, still they are not responsible for killing and beheading him, the adult who did it is.
Nowhere does it state your xenophobic assumptions about how you feel over the event.
For all they knew he was going to simply speak with the teacher, or maybe kick his ass.
Tell me, why do you assume so freely that all of the Muslim kids were deeply involved in the beheading itself? I find that very interesting…
We hung nazis that didn't directly kill anyone
Did we?
The only source I can find on such a thing is post Nuremberg trials, and it was ten nazi generals that definitely deserved it.
I did find a source for 23,000 out of 35,000 deserting Nazis were killed by their own party for fleeing war, so maybe you were thinking of that while being a nazi?
The point is that you do not actually need to have killed anyone yourself for you to get the most severe punishment available. If they're a fascist, put them before a court and let them be judged. But there's a problem. The people are not yet antagonized against fascism enough. Too many people are accepting or indifferent of it.
That…and the fact they are like 14 and not fascists, but yeah, other than that nothing you say is crazy at all!
So people shouldn't be opposed to fascism? Seems more like you're the 14 year old and have watched too much Shen Babipo
Oh no they should, they should just make sure the kids they want to label as such and then justify their punishment boner with are actually fascists and not just dumb kids.
Nice bait though!
Where did I say they were directly involved in the beheading? I know xenophobic is a big word for you but you should still look up the definition before just tossing it around like that.
You speak of me needing to improve my literacy and yet you’re the one confusing deeply involved with directly.
Unless you’re just backpedaling and attempting to obfuscate the point, now.
So? They are still responsible for his death
How so?
If you play by felony murder rules, they’re just as guilty since they participated in the planning and actively participated (by waiting for / stalking the victim and pointing him out to their co-conspirator).
In some places if you help plan and participate in a crime that results in a death you’re equally culpable of the murder - even if you weren’t in the same room as the killing. Escape car drivers frequently get death row for a murder that happened in the course of the crime.
The dude showed up at their school and found some 14 year olds that would tell him who the teacher was for money.
He also told them he was just going to make the teacher apologize, not cut his fucking head off, my guy.
Slow your roll with sticking some tricked dumb kids to prison for life over some shit they had no control over to begin with.
These kids haven't killed anyone. A weird guy told them who is the teacher who's insulted Muhamad, here is 300 EUR, I'll teach him to not do it again
They couldn't guess what was about to happen, and now live with the guilt and trauma which is a worse sentence than any jail time
You’re presuming a state of mind, just as the other people you’re arguing against are. We don’t know if they regret it or not and never will.
They are not the perpetrators, and were kids at the time. Kids are easily influenced, and make mistakes, a lot of them.
In this case those mistakes ended up causing the gruesome death of an innocent teacher, that is why they are on trial. If someone is guilty, it is their parents, who failed to educate them, and those who exploited those weaknesses to put them under their influence.
Im sorry but my mistakes as a kid were breaking windows not beheading people.
In this case it is more selling information about the victim to the perpetrator.
The tribunal task will be to evaluate if they knew what the perpetrator was about to do, in which case their punishment will be harsher, or if they didn't.
Again, they didn't behead anyone
Cool, how long did you go to jail?
And adults aren't? Tired of this nonsense that people reach a certain age and all of a sudden they can tell right from wrong.
Were you one of those kids who couldn't tell right from wrong? I wasn't, and neither were most of my peers. It's a cultural issue, not an age one.
I mostly agree with you.
It is more of a legal shortcut, but it is a useful one if we don't want to have to do psychological expertise and possibly counter-expertise for every case to determine if someone is mature enough or isn't.
I know some man-childs that never got past a teenager maturity, as well as teenagers who have more maturity than many "adults".
But laws have to be precise for many reasons, and the age of legal responsibility has many reasons to exist other than this case.
Still, adults are mostly less immature than kids, as they had the time to mature (albeit not everyone, unfortunately).
More life experience means it is easier for adults to discern bullshit from truth, and thus their responsibility is considered as full in the case they make mistakes.
A kid tribunal task is as much to discern how mature a kid is as it is to sentence them to a just punishment.
Edit : merging two answers to the same comment.
Let those of us who weren’t involved in a religiously charged murder cast the first stone.
Wait…
I don't know for you, but most of us aren't. Throwing stones at them will only lower us at the same level as those who beheaded others for their fanatical ideology. Let justice do its work.
Na dawg, I’m poking fun at your “look, we all make mistakes” sentiment when we’re talking about fucking murder.
Sorry, simply assisting a murder.
And because you seem confused, this is what it means to cast stones in this context: https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/cast+the+first+stone
Better believe I’m comfortable casting this particular stone.
I'm not confused, I know this idiom very well.
I was writing from a juridical view point, not from an emotional one. Like everyone I want them to be punished, but in accordance with their fault, not with the emotion, albeit legitimate, that teacher murder created. Once again, they are kids, or maybe should I say teens, with limited life experiences, easily swayed by those who offer them a seemingly strong identity, like every teenager strives to find at that period of their life.
A strong punishment is necessary, but not as strong as if they were full fledged adults.
Usually in France, at that age, sentences are in most cases cut in half of what an adult would get. Exception for life sentences, in which case it is the "surety period", during which they cannot be released no matter what, which will be cut in half.