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this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2023
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Hamas also told people not to leave the evacuation zone, have been using civilians and humanitarian structures as human shields, and have been shooting at refugees trying to leave. It's clear they care more about making Israel look bad in the media than they do about the safety of their own people.
then Israel admitted that they bombed a refugee camp in Jabalia, and then they apparently did it again in al-Maghazi, kinda validating what Hamas said
I recently typed out this comment in another thread about how we can't trust Israel's word about human shields because of their actions during the Great March of Return in 2017/2018 and how it's a double standard anyways.
this is the first I've heard this accusation, and a quick google search for "hamas shoots fleeing refugees" and "hamas shoots gazans" didn't turn up any results for me. Do you mind providing a source? FWIW, there is growing evidence that at least some of the October 7th death toll can be attributed to Israeli friendly fire due to a mix of desperation and combat confusion
How exactly does this validate what Hamas said?
You trust Hamas's reports but not Israel's? That seems foolish. Check out this NATO report on Hamas' use of human shields. Plenty of news agencies are cited as having reported on evidence of this, including non-Israeli ones, (ANB TV, Al-Hayat newspaper, Der Spiegel newspaper, Palestine Info Center, Alwatan TV...)
Article: Viral video appears to show Hamas firing on civilians fleeing Gaza hospital
Thank you for that study from 2015. I don't doubt that Israel took it into consideration when they made the claims they did about the Great March of Return in 2017 and 2018. I want to draw your attention to two of the key points mentioned:
Would you say that any of the recent claims Israel has made were "thoroughly documented"? Or was the world supposed to take Israel at its word?
What coherent, consistent, and coordinated activities has Israel taken to undermine Hamas in the eyes of civilians? Has Israel taken any coherent, consistent, and coordinated activities to increase Hamas's authority?
Also, thank you for providing a source about those shots. I checked the source you posted, and the article says this:
Clicking through to the twitter link shows a video where it's unclear who is firing shots, where they come from, or where they land. The only source saying that it was Hamas is Some Dude On Twitter whose bio reads "Freed by Elon". The video also shows zero civilian casualties on screen, and the general lack of terror in the crowd makes me assume that there were also no off-screen civilian casualties.
There is no evidence saying that Hamas fired these shots--and even if it was Hamas that did the shooting, they didn't hit any civilian targets. IDF snipers can not or will not show that same level of restraint.
shooting at refugees trying to leave. It's clear they care more about making Israel look bad in the media than they do about the safety of their own people.
Why don't I see video's of Palestinians complaining about Hamas?
Why don't I see video's of Palestinians fighting Hamas and dragging them out into the street?
If Hamas is really killing their own people, why do we never hear about splinter groups of Palestinians enacting revenge against Hamas?
OP is an IDF sympathiser and will vigorously defend them, but my take is, and this is what i tell the pro-genocide crowd, Hamas is a militant group that run on ideology and will not hesitate to kill, you can't expect a normal folks to take up arm and fight them. Gazan is already struggling with day to day life, with Israel blockade and harsh control and incredibly prejudice against them, and Hamas being a shitty government, they're stuck between two devil.
Good questions. Maybe the average Palestinian is ill equipped to fight an armed terrorist regime. Maybe they still have widespread support. Maybe this information isn't being disseminated there. Maybe this is happening but media coverage is so sparse we're not able to see it. Maybe they're really good at blaming Israel for the deaths they cause. There are many possible reasons we can speculate on.
That happened when Hamas went to war with Fatah. Part of why the PA has been supporting the blockade since they took Gaza.
It's wild to me how many people on here refuse to acknowledge this kind of thing.
The US has been striking targets of opportunity for years all while racking up hundreds of civilian casualties. Where has your outrage been for them?
You're making a lot of assumptions about someone else's feelings on US military operations based on one post where they're talking about something else.
Pepsi changed it's flavor and I'm outraged! Where's your outrage about Coke? Well shit, that also pissed me off.
See the assumption when I illustrate it? If not it's likely your comment was in bad faith to begin with
The question wasn’t really about you. You I’m glad there is outrage and an outpouring of support for the innocent Palestinians almost to the point of civil unrest. But if we’re going to champion innocent lives then let’s be consistent. School shootings don’t evoke the same level of fervor that this tragedy has. Hamas stands behind innocent people to bolster their political stance. And too many of us are doing it too. Once this conflict winds down there will be a return to quiet resignation over tragic events that happen elsewhere every day.
That may be true.
But you made an assumption about if someone else is outraged about US actions without knowing them at all.
Or, that's my assumption. Maybe you stalk this person all over social media to know their feelings so well that you could make an informed judgement.
But, my assumption is that you don't and that your comment wasn't in good faith but rather an expression of your own frustrations about other acts of violence that are also happening.
Because the person you responded to may very well be as frustrated as you about all of the rest too.
Take care.
People can be angry or upset about more than one thing at a time. And you've no idea whether the person you responded to has been outraged about the US' strikes or not. Just because a society as a whole has a viewpoint that trends a certain way doesn't mean you can assume each and every individual you talk to has that exact viewpoint.
By all means, criticise society as a whole - it's a very valid thing to be critical of. But making assumptions about individuals - and being rude to / critical of them based on those assumptions - isn't the way to win anyone over.